Shira Ali: Building & Growing A Property Management Business

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Do you own rental properties and are considering hiring a property manager? Or are you considering running a property management company? Meet Shira Ali. She has 20+ years in the property management industry managing multi-family and commercial real estate. Host of the "Manage Your Property With Ease" podcast, Shira also holds the Certified Property Manager designation, oversees assets over 3 million square feet, and trains others to do the same through her company REI Chics. She's sharing her best knowledge and experience here about tenant selection, maintaining great relationships, managing assets well, to help you make smart decisions about the properties you own and help others run.

In this episode, hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:

• Having the right property manager can grow your asset
• How to set up a property manager for success
• Creating win-win relationships between owners and property managers
• Real estate agents help property managers to be successful by giving a realistic expectation
• Refer people to good quality property managers
• You can see growth when property managers get more assignments
• Everyone wins when you manage expectations properly
• Keys in building a property management business

• Time
• Setting realistic expectations
• Communication in all areas

• If you are starting a property management company, make sure you are clear on what you want to manage
• Property manager sets a good expectation with investors on finding great tenants

Timestamps

0:00 - Intro to Shira’s Career
1:27 - Shira’s Background
4:33 - Adding Value
5:26 - Commercial
11:49 – Broken Trust
16:48- Setting Expectations Early
20:56 – Detailed Scope
22:35 – Easy ways to attract new clients
26:13 – Shira's Podcast
28:02 - How to find Shira

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Full transcript here:

Mike Swenson 

Welcome to The REL Freedom Podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson, let's get some real freedom together.

Mike Swenson 

Welcome everybody to another episode of The REL Freedom Podcast where we talk about building wealth and gaining time and financial freedom through different opportunities in real estate. And today, we're gonna be talking primarily about property management, right? So after you have an asset, you want to build wealth with that asset, maintaining it is really important. And so we have Shira Ali on here. And she's going to share with us tips to consider number one starting out, you know, should I hire somebody, should I hire somebody, maybe when's the right time to hire somebody, and then working as she consults with property managers, helping them to build and grow their business. And to do a fantastic job, like I said, managing that asset.

Mike Swenson 

So a little bit about Shira. So she's the founder of REI Chics, and a sought after trainer for property managers. So she does a lot of coaching and consulting of property managers, she has experienced both on the residential and commercial side, she works with people on training and developing talent, and is the host of the manager property with ease podcast, Sharon, we're so excited to have you on the show. And if you want to just share a little bit more about yourself, so the listeners can hear about you.

Shira Ali 

Thank you. Thank you, Mike, I'm happy to be here. So just so everyone knows a little bit about my background, I have been in property management for 20 years, spent almost an equal amount of time on both sides. So I have a good base. And I'm also a real estate investor myself building a portfolio that I manage long distance. So throughout my career, I have worked with not only the mom and pop smaller landlords and ownership groups, I've worked for REITs institutional clients managing their assets. And then I kind of moved on to in a role where I was more developing the team to manage those assets. So I was overseeing a team. And we were managing about 4 million square feet, little 3.5 in that range, right? If it fluctuated, but in that range of both GSA properties, retail, industrial the mix, right, so that's what I had been doing.

Shira Ali 

So I left my corporate career March 25, of this year 2022. And I've moved into doing my consulting business full time, I'm very, very passionate about not only supporting those smaller owners that need help, kind of developing their systems and really taking that burden, they're spending too much time on certain areas of their business, not the right areas, not the areas they want to be spending in their business, right. Yep, helping to kind of alleviate that for them. And really helping them to get a good team in place if they need that when they're ready to kind of scale their business. And I can go in and really help those managers be where they need them to be. Because that's I don't know if you've experienced this, but we have seen I'm in Northern Virginia, we've seen in my market, a real change a lot of property managers that see more senior ones, right that have the season managers are leaving a lot of them. So trying to develop those newer Junior managers to get them where they need to be,

Mike Swenson 

you know, what a lot of people may be just starting out in investing don't realize is the the true value that a fantastic property manager can have, I think, you know, maybe sometimes they might think short sighted of like, I just want my headaches to go away. So I'm just hiring somebody to help help get rid of my headaches. But the reality is having the right property manager can really take and grow your asset, so that it's maximized in value, right? So you know, there's a piece of placing tenants, collecting rent, taking care of maintenance needs, and that sort of thing. But there's also a lot of strategy behind it. If I put x amount of dollars into this property, future rents could be this or, you know, Hey, we should spend money on this right now. Maybe not on this. So there's a lot of value add that a fantastic property manager can add more than just pay make my headaches go away, and I'm gonna pay you. Right?

Shira Ali 

right. I agree. It's really about adding value. That's the mentality that I had as a property manager when I was doing it like hands on adding value, what can you do to add value to that property? And it doesn't always mean spending a ton of money. It's really like you said balancing all of those things. And one of the things I like to always say like property managers, you don't you don't really realize there's an issue until something goes wrong. That You know, we were always like property managers are really behind the scenes. I always say without applause most of the times, you know, we're kind of having to make things run smoothly the owner, you notice it like, oh, there's an issue, I see trash, I see this the parking lot, all those issues, right.

Shira Ali 

But when things are going smoothly, you really don't even you don't even think about the property manager for the most part. So for on let's let's just talk about even on the commercial side, right, I'm not sure how many of your listeners listeners on the commercial side. But with that, and you you kind of mentioned like the tenant mix, and all of those things, typically the brokers are bringing in those tenants, right? And then property manager's job to really nurture that relationship. Because after though that lease is signed, where's the broker? Where's, where's the broker that's there, done, right? They get their commission, and they're done. So the property managers really keeping the tenants happy checking in on them that that's what a good property managers doing. Right? Right. Making sure that they are doing all of the preventative maintenance, they are just really keeping an eye on things.

Shira Ali 

So they're looking at not only that asset that they're paid to manage, but they're keeping an eye on what's going on in the community, what's going on in that neighborhood, you know, driving through, and just really doing analysis there as well and giving that feedback to the ownership group as well, because they're the ownership, you're there, the tenants first Are there more than anyone, and then you're going to be second, right? So you have that ability to add value in that way. And that's where a lot of people if I can, like, go into this a little bit, a lot of ownership groups, when they're hiring a property manager, you just you mentioned that they want their problems to go away, right. In many of those cases, they're not setting the property manager up for success.

Shira Ali 

You know, it's, it's rushed. It's, they didn't do the proper vetting for that company or individual. Yep. It's, yeah, it's just, it's not good. And then the property managers blame when things go wrong, but they really kind of were working with like one hand tied behind their back. And they're kind of just trying to find their way through. And that's where I think that people can really, if you know that you're going to be purchasing an asset, start the due diligence process early. Don't just give them hey, when when when can you take this property over? Can you do it by like Friday, that's not the best way to go about it, you know, give them a good transition time so that they have time to really get all of the documents that they need in place, get get all their contacts, everything set up properly. So it's, so it's really a smooth transition. Does that does that make sense to you? Have you seen that? Have you experienced that?

Mike Swenson 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, another thing that I was thinking about, as you're talking is setting up the property manager for success, things around, you know, tenant selection, it's not necessarily the first person that's willing to pay, that's going to be the best tenant. So sometimes it might be, hey, this is what we want rents to be. And we're going to hold out for that. And we're going to wait to find the right tenant, versus Hey, what's the lowest that we can go on rents to try to get somebody in right now? Well, that person might cause more problems have long term issues. And so it's finding that balance.

Mike Swenson 

So I think that's where you know, my role as a real estate agent, I can help set up a property managers for success by giving a realistic expectation, instead of saying like, Oh, yeah, don't worry about it. Like they'll get somebody in there as soon as possible. You know, I can say, hey, finding the right tenant sometimes can take time. And you know, making sure that you've looked at your financial projections about what if we take a little bit more time to find the right tenant at the right price versus just rushing to get that in? I can help tee up that conversation.

Mike Swenson 

So when you say the same thing about, hey, we want to find the right tenant, it's not going to get something that means the agent or as the broker would say, so that's where I feel like us as agents can work with property managers, like you said, to set realistic expectations, so that the investor knows, okay, it might take a little bit of time to find this tenant. But once we find the right tenant, it's going to be a good fit for us.

Shira Ali 

Yeah, and I definitely agree with that. You're not on opposite sides. Everyone needs to really work together. That's really how I have maintained longevity in my career. Really just being people oriented and really solution driven, and not adversarial, like you don't need We're not against you're not against the property manager, you're not there to throw dirt on them and vice versa. So you really need to work together and communicate most most times on even on commercial and residential side. We had leasing calls. So we would communicate we knew what was what was they had in the works. We knew what tenants they were thinking about so we could get feedback ownership date. wanted us on those calls so that we could give feedback, because we may bring a different perspective to it, right?

Shira Ali 

So that was very, very valuable. And when you do do that, the property manager knows, like, what can they expect, as far as when is a tenant going to be coming in, if they're going to be doing showings, don't wait until you have someone who wants to tour the space to tell the property manager, even though granted, things should be looking good all the time, if they should be, but let them do another fine tune of that space. So that you really are set up for success, and you don't go there and you're embarrassed, and you see ceiling tiles stained, and all, you know, spaces not swept out and all those things. So it's really working together in the kind of that effort to help your ownership group and, you know, add value in that way. And that's really what we're there for.

Mike Swenson 

And I think another thing, as far as you know, agents and property managers working together is, you know, I shared the example with you that I've always had in my head, which is, as an investor, you date your real estate agent or your broker, and you marry your property manager, because the reality is, is if you do a great job, managing the asset, helping them to make money, they're gonna want to come back to me to buy more assets, right. And so that's where we can work really well with a good property manager, because we can accent each other. And when you do a great job, I can help them buy more properties. If the property manager doesn't do a great job, then they might want to look elsewhere.

Mike Swenson 

And so I think that's where it's, you know, my job is the agent to make sure that I have great property manager referrals for people that really do an amazing job, because it's just going to make my relationship with that investor client really strong. And if it's fractured, then it's fractured. And it's tough to overcome that. So that's where I want to make sure I'm referring people to good quality property managers.

Shira Ali 

I totally agree. And one of the things that we, my previous company, one of the groups that we would have a lot of times those that we call them, like I call them, they got out of those, like bad relationships, they were like Adam, one owner, he actually said, you know, I feel like I'm coming out of an abusive relationship with the previous property manager, like it was really and once you like you'd mentioned, once it gets to that point, it's so hard to bring it around, because they're the trust is broken. They're the, they're the ownership groups that are going to, they want to check everything, and they're back in that place where they wanted to get away that they wanted to get away from micromanaging everything.

Shira Ali 

So you really everyone wins, when you really manage the expectations? Well, you work together for that, like common good. And you really see growth, because property managers you get, you get more assignments, the broker selling, they're selling more deals, and everyone goes home happy. You know, that's, that's very important. Because once you get there, it's really hard to bring it back. It takes a lot of time. And don't forget the people who are are also getting hurt in this situation are your tenants, the tenants are suffering, you know, because they have to deal with someone who was not good. Right, then they have to go through that transition, it's frustrating for them, it really is when they're trying to run their business. That's not what they're trying, they're just coming there to run their business. And they want to place that they can do that and do it well. So when all of that is not right, it hurts everyone in the in the picture. So just keep those things in mind. Really good communication, setting, expect reasonable expectations for people on both sides, right, that really can go a long way.

Mike Swenson 

And at the end of the day, yeah, you want you want to have happy tenants because you want them to stay. And I know, you know, previous in my previous job, when we had rented properties from a property manager, if they did a great job for us. And if our needs changed, our sides need size needs changed, we would be happy moving into a different building that they helped to manage, because so you know, just because our company's growing, and maybe we're growing too big for our current space, we can stay with the same property manager, the same owner if they do a good job for us. And so I think that's where you as the investor, you want to come back to tenants, tenants are happy, and you know, great referrals, just like in a regular residential real estate business, right? Like you want to have happy clients.

Mike Swenson 

Same thing here with with commercial and residential on the property manager side, you want to have great tenants because they want to stay they liked the management that they get. They're gonna refer other business people that they know to you. And so it all comes back to doing a good job for the client.

Shira Ali 

Yeah, I agree. So I'm curious to ask, since you're on the other side, I'm curious to ask you what has been like one of the biggest struggles that you've seen with any property managers you've worked with

Mike Swenson 

You know, number one, seen them in action? It's it's one thing I think that's where I'm newer to the to the investor side of the business on the residential side and Though finding people that, you know, you ask for referrals, you can find people that say good things about you. Right. But it's different to see that inaction play out. And so I think, you know, as somebody giving out referrals, I want to make sure that that person is doing a great job. And if I don't have a long track record relationship with that person, it's a little hard to feel confident in the referral. Similarly, if it's something where it's a construction, project, H, HVAC, plumbing, electrician, any of those types of vendors, when we give out referrals, you know, you you've worked with them in the past, but sometimes things come up, you know, and people aren't happy.

Mike Swenson 

So I think for me, knowing that they're going to have a long term relationship with a property manager, and being newer in the business, wanting to feel confident in the in the referrals that we're giving. So I think that's number one. And then, and then two, I've always had this in the back of my mind, I like the property manager, I might like the communication they're having with me, are they having good communication with me? Because I'm the one giving them referrals? And what is that communication like with the tenant or with the investor? And so that's where, you know, we see one side of the business, we don't necessarily see the other side of the business, which is the most important like, hey, a property manager could be awesome at communicating with me, because they want more business. But if they do a terrible job with the tenants, eventually we'll find out.

Mike Swenson 

But being newer, you don't necessarily know that if I was in the business for 10 years, it's like, oh, yeah, they've done a fantastic job for me, we've worked for him for eight years, haven't had any complaints, you know, blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, I think that's a that's a challenge for people, maybe newer in the business, you know, I've gotten some referrals. And then how do we know that they're treating the tenants and their investors the same way that they're treating me?

Shira Ali 

Yeah. So with that, what I would say is, I would check in on those relationships, whenever we had a group that was giving us referrals, if they weren't like a formal partnership, you know, venture or joint venture, they would check in. And just because that you want to maintain that relationship with the investor and you want to like kind of nip things in the bud quickly, when it's not going right. Don't let it just linger, right? Yep. So I would, I would definitely check in. And then what I will say with the ownership, like the investor, set expectations with that manager. So typically, we had, whether when we took on a new assignment, hey, do you want to have bi weekly call, like whatever that is? Do they want a weekly report what we asked those questions upfront so that we knew what their expectation was Don't Don't assume that that manager is just going to check in with you every week, they're not, unless there's something that comes up. So set those expectations early.

Mike Swenson 

And another thing that comes to my mind is, you know, somebody's trying to vet out property managers finding that balance between newer and hungry to grow and want to provide great customer service, versus, you know, is there somebody that's in a large scale operation, where maybe you just get lost in the shuffle, you're just a number? And so I think finding that balance, you know, not only are we looking for great reviews, great service, but is this somebody that wants to grow with me? Or is this somebody where it's like, oh, yeah, talk to so and so they're my, they're my person over here that handles all the new clients, you know, and so I think finding that balance between small enough for or large enough, and what's going to be the person that I can develop a long term relationship with.

Shira Ali 

And that goes back to really taking the time to vet that individual or that company, because I've know both sides, right, the larger management companies where you can, I actually heard, though, I was told, there is a company where one manager was managing 732 units, residential, I was blown away. I was like, There's no way I don't, I don't care how good you are. I don't care how good you are, and I'm good, okay. That you are managing, effectively managing that's beyond your capacity. It really is. So really understanding and asking those questions, actually speaking with not just the, the, the VP of the company, the director, speaking with the property manager, the savvy investors, they get on the phone and they don't want anyone else on that call, they just want to speak with that person and get the real deal. Right, and ask the questions and really understand how opera, how the business operates, in addition to referrals and all of those things, but you get a good sense of that so you feel comfortable.

Shira Ali 

And that is where a lot of people they skip those steps. They just they're like I need you know, I'm buying this I'm closing I need a property management company who do you know, got really take the time to go through those steps because it's gonna save you time heartache, money, everything in the in the end Yeah,

Mike Swenson 

another thing that comes to mind too is pricing. Right? So everybody's got their own pricing structure? And am I willing to pay more if I have a if I have a company that's doing a fantastic job, great reviews, but they cost 10%? More? Am I willing to pay that 10%? More or not, you know, and so you have to have a conversation with yourself of the cost and the benefit of that cost. And so some people, it's like, Hey, can I find the cheapest person that can do a average job, you know, they're never going to tell you that. But internally, that's probably what they're thinking when they're making the hire is, yeah, they're doing an average job. And as long as it's cheap, that's okay.

Mike Swenson 

Versus hey, this person is charging a premium. And yet, everybody has glowing reviews and fantastic. And you know what, it's going to cost me more to have those people but I'm willing to pay that. And so finding that cost value, that happy medium, there is really important.

Shira Ali 

It is and I'm going to say I'm going to tell you this, because we've run into this where maybe our proposal was more but also look at what is included, right? So look at that exhibit to see, what are they including a lot of those companies, their fees may be lower, right. But they're building in a lot of things they're building in offices, they build in, I've seen, we've seen some things where they've built in a lot. So they were adding they were adding those things in. So when you really came to it, they were really close, we were close.

Shira Ali 

So take that into account also. And then the other one is, you know, when you develop your scope, well, I want you to do inspections on my property once a month, I want you to like build out your scope, and really see where the numbers come in. So if they that's that's one thing that people just, you know, they take their proposal, but make sure that your scope is really detailed and outline so that you are there bidding on what you need and what your your expectation. So that's one area also make sure there are no additional fees, I'm sure you've you've may have run into this. That happens. That happens. And it looks lower on that on the surface, but it's not.

Mike Swenson 

I think those I mean, you know, my perspective, those are a few of the top things that kind of come to mind. So as you're working with people in building out their property management business, what are some of the keys that you advise people on

Shira Ali 

really just taking the time? setting realistic expectations, communication on all in all areas?

Mike Swenson 

What about marketing and growing your business in that way? So you know, hey, I'm trying to grow? What are some easier ways where they can go find new clients?

Shira Ali 

For the property manager? So if you are starting a property management company, okay, yes. So for that, really making sure that you're clear on what you want to manage, right? Clear, because a lot of people when you're just starting out, you're like, Okay, I'll take anything, I'm just kind of throwing spaghetti, right? So you're just taking anything really being clear, thinking about how, because there's so many management companies out there, how are you really setting yourself apart in this industry, everyone can collect rent, everyone can do, can sign a contract every like, so look at really those areas to really set yourself apart. In that in the business, of course, networking, networking with other, you know, with agents networking in that way. And referrals.

Shira Ali 

Referrals are a big one. For us, that was a big, one of the ways that we were able to really grow and scale through referrals, maybe it's, you're working on some maybe joint ventures, maybe you have, there's another management company, right? That maybe this, these clients are not really fitting into their pool anymore. So maybe you can work with them and kind of take some of that off of them. There's so many different ways that you can be creative and do that. And maybe they get a percentage, a percentage is better than you getting zero.

Shira Ali 

So if you have to do that, maybe that's the thing that you should do. But I think those are some of the ways that you can really see you know, hope to grow and start up your business and really just doing a good job. Once you have the contract, don't just say okay, we have it now, really do a good job, check in with your owners, check in make sure check in with the tenants make sure that you're doing a good job, referrals will come things will start to progress. So

Mike Swenson 

and kind of in the same mindset of, you know, setting a good expectation with investors about finding great tenants, you as a property manager or business owner, want to be reasonable to find investors that are going to be a match for you because if you take on the wrong client, it's just going to put pressure on you, right like in ways if it's not, you know, I was telling somebody the other day like property managers also like it's it's a niche business and there's certain properties or certain locations or certain places where for some it it just fits better with what they do. And for some, it's just not quite the Same fit. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want to take on your property, but it's just not quite as much in that wheelhouse.

Mike Swenson 

So if you as a property manager take on a client, that's not a great fit for you, it's just going to create a squeaky wheel. And you're going to spend more time trying to fix that squeaky wheel, then trying to just take some time and find another client that does fit within your niche and what you want to do. Correct.

Shira Ali 

That's what that's one of the first things I said really be clear about what you want to do there, right, you don't have to do everything. There are some management companies that they just manage C and D and E F properties, like, that's what they do. And that's their thing. They don't manage the A Class building, they don't do it. So really being clear on what you do where you, you play best, and go from there. Because like you said, when you're trying to fit that thing in there, and it's not working, you spend way too much time and then you don't do a good job. And that's you hurting yourself in that way. So you really want to go stay in the area where you do well. And you know, you perform well,

Mike Swenson 

why don't you just take a couple minutes and share about your podcasts that you have. So the manager property with these podcasts? What do you what do you talk about on there? What types of guests do you have? So people maybe can can listen to you there?

Shira Ali 

Yeah, so the podcast, I really wanted to start a podcast because I just in my family, friends, just people I connect with, I noticed that there was a need for people to have a better understanding on how they can do it if they want to self manage their properties, right how they can do that with more ease. So that's how I came up with manager. Right? Because it's a struggle. And that's when I see people they want to give up, they want to sell their properties, they're like this is not for me, they really are not at that place where they've scaled enough to bring doesn't make sense for them to bring in a property manager necessarily, because that's eating too much into what you know their profit. So there's a way that you can do it. So I really just wanted to give tips. So I initially it was so it's my podcast, but I would have my sister on as a frequent guest because she manages a class buildings on the residential side.

Shira Ali 

So I thought she could bring that residential component in addition to my experience on both sides. So we just really I give tips there. More recently, I've had more guests that have really added some great value in different areas. I'm actually talking to someone who's going to come on and talk about like Airbnb, like just really just different areas. I talk about insurance taxes, just kind of basics and best practices, because not everyone's into the more complicated strategies, they just really want to know, I have a couple of properties, how do I just maintain protect myself and all of those things. So that's really what I like to talk about. And it's really down to earth. Just practical advice.

Mike Swenson 

And then in addition to that, for folks that have enjoyed the conversation, they want to learn more about becoming a property manager. Maybe they're our property manager right now and they want help with growing their business, how can they find out more about you.

Shira Ali  

So you can definitely reach out to me on social media. Instagram is my place of choice right now. So on Instagram at REI Chics. So our REI Chics, and then I would also invite you to visit my website and join my community. So I have a mailing list there and I send out just practical tips that you can use. If you have questions there, my email is there. If you want to just send me a quick note, you can do that. But I definitely want to invite you into the community so we can stay in touch that way.

Mike Swenson 

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. excited to hear from you excited about everything that you had to share. And yeah, go check out the podcast go check out our website, property management, super important as an investor right. You don't want to make a quick decision. You want to make sure you're choosing the right people. So property managers can really accent your business and help it to grow quickly. So thanks so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom.