Roy Barigayomwe: Social Justice Filmmaker Turned RE Investor
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We often say that you don't have to have prior real estate experience to be successful in investing, and this is true of Roy (and his wife Anna), who are investors in the Minneapolis/St. Paul Market in Minnesota. Roy was a filmmaker who was focused on social justice issues in East Africa. Anna has a PhD in Family Social Science and is a professor at the University of Minnesota. Together they form a great team that focuses on fix & flips, rehabs, and rentals. In addition to that, they are passionate about helping others to create wealth to build financial freedom and coach others to do what they did to achieve their own success. Listen to Roy share he and his wife's journey to where they are at today.
In this episode, hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:
- Roy and Anna are local to the Minneapolis St. Paul area. Roy is from East Africa and has a film making background. Anna has a health care background.
- He worked for a nonprofit in East Africa that helped rescue child soldiers take care of orphans, as well as rescue sex slaves from the civil war that happened out there with Joseph Kony.
- He started a film business and came across to community of real estate investors in Twin Cities and he decided to get into real estate industry.
- They started fix and flips and we found them through wholesalers.
- To maintain good relationship with his people, he makes sure to pay them on time and give bonuses.
- Roy started to teach people about real estate and investing to build a good foundation.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro and overview on Roy’s career
01:29 Roy and his wife’s background and how he got into real estate.
06:50 Talking about how he finds deals and what his portfolio looks like now versus when he started.
16:18 Talking about front end of financing.
20:51 Roy teaches other people about real estate and investing.
25:03 Talking about financial freedom, time, and education.
30:04 How people can get ahold of Roy.
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Full transcript here:
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the REL freedom podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.
Mike Swenson
Hello, everybody, welcome to this episode of real freedom stories. And I'm so excited to share with you You know, a lot of times we have people who have real estate experience and have done great things. And this is a great story of husband and wife, couple who have had not any real estate experience coming in and being very successful. So today, we've got Roy barriga, yome way, who's going to share with us his story, and his wife, Anna. And so they are local to the Minneapolis St. Paul area. So a little bit about your guyses background. So you were in East Africa, and actually have had a filmmaking background, talking about, you know, social justice issues, and we'll dig into that. And then your wife, Anna actually has a background in healthcare. So what better spot to think, okay, we're going to get into real estate is you've got somebody in filmmaking, and you've got somebody with a with a medical background and a teaching background here. And, and so real estate makes a lot of sense. So welcome, Roy. Just give us a little bit more about you and your wife's background and kind of how you guys got into real estate.
Roy Barigayomwe
Perfect. Great to be here with you, Mike, and thanks for this opportunity. It's always an honor for us to share this journey, hopefully to inspire somebody who is on the sidelines is wondering, Is this for me? Can I really do this. So this is something that you can do. So my background, as Mike mentioned, is film and journalism. I worked for a nonprofit in East Africa that helped rescue child soldiers take care of orphans, as well as rescue sex slaves from the civil war that happened out there with Joseph Kony, maybe some of you might have heard of him. So that's my background. I worked with my mother in interior design. And that's kind of where this whole idea about real estate was birthed. And I was I always admired American stories of how one generation starts a business. And that's carried on to other generations. I love biographies, I love to read people's stories. And I got a desire to carry my mom's business to the next level. So I started looking into real estate investing.
Roy Barigayomwe
But unfortunately, in Uganda, there wasn't anything streamlined, like an education or courses. And many times things are very informal, sometimes can get judged dangerous. You try to strike a deal with somebody that you're a broker, you don't even need a license to be a broker. And then if it goes south, they probably try to get hold, eliminates you so they can check the whole deal. So that's the kind of environment that I was raised in. Yeah, and so when I moved here in the, to the to the US in 2012, I came out here to do some fieldwork. And then my journalism wouldn't convert. Because of course, the culture is different affairs are different. So I decided to start from the bottom and work my way up. So I did some merchandising work in tailgate. I did some CNA work. And then I did client relations for a network company for a friend of mine in Massachusetts.
Roy Barigayomwe
And then I started thinking, hey, how do I get back into this game? Maybe I should get my license. That was actually my thought I got into real estate investing, I need my license. And so by the time my wife with my wife and I met, I had bought a bunch of CDs at attended some seminars. And this particular seminar was teaching about tax liens and tax deeds, because that is actually a strategy that you could use to get into real estate. So as a studying this strategy for like three years trying to figure it out. But unfortunately, I didn't have enough support, community, you know, mentorship to make it work. Some of the terms they were using were complicated, right, but you could buy the next product. Exactly. Yep. It was frustrating, but I was like, I gotta figure this out. But anyway, long story short, my when I told my wife about, Hey, I should get my license.
Roy Barigayomwe
She was like, No, you're going to be showing houses, we're going to be gone. We've been long distance dating, that's not going to work. But when we started our film business, because of course intrapreneur wheels are spinning. What do we do next? Is that this film business. And that's really how we came across this community of real estate investors in the Twin Cities, they had education, but they also had collaboration. And then they had the mentorship and coaching were like, this is perfect. My wife was like, I'm gonna try this. searched for it and investigated myself, this stuff is free on the internet. But you quickly realized why reinvent the wheel when there is essentially classes that have been really made by professionals that are specific to their areas of expertise, why not plug in and play? And that is really in a nutshell, how we got into this real estate investing.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Well, and I think to a lot of times, you know, because when I'm in real estate forums, or Facebook groups or whatnot, you know, and people bring up the question about a coaching program or a mentorship type program. And, you know, you'll see the people in there that say, Hey, you know, why, why do that because all the informations on the internet, or you can go find a YouTube video and watch it, you know, but it's a, it's a different set, there's, there's accountability to it. And there's hand holding, you know, in terms of showing you what to do, and really laying out the path. Because I think that's what's really important. Yes, the informations out there. But there's a lot of great information, there's a lot of not great information, and to be able to show you, here's step one, step two, step three, and to have people who have walked through that already, and show you there's now you don't have all the outside noise.
Mike Swenson
To complicate things, and in a lot of ways, real estate, it's, it's simple, it's not easy, you have to follow certain steps, but then to you also know what steps not to follow. And so I think that's where you know, what, what you're talking about really makes a lot of sense. And especially for somebody outside of real estate, it's like, Hey, I just want to just show me what to do. And let's do this versus me trying to spend the next however many years, you know, figuring it out. So why don't you talk a little bit about finding the deals a little bit of the work that you've done, what your portfolio looks like now, versus when you started? Let's kind of dig into that a little bit.
Roy Barigayomwe
Yeah, sounds good. So finding the deals, like I said, we came in, we were hired to take pictures for this broker, and this community of investors. Then we come to another meeting where they had a mentor flying into town, and just to help the community learn about business credit, and how to leverage that to build their businesses, until we're like, oh, this makes sense to us. So essentially, we plugged into a community of investors, we got an opportunity to essentially be handheld, right. And so an individual who was already flipping a bunch of houses said, Hey, you guys can help me with my project. So right off the bat, we got to participate in about 10 flips in the first year and a half, we got to hire crews, we got to manage the project and all that stuff. So essentially, something that would have been complex, because every day we were around flips. And some of these flips, I know you asked about acquisition. So we were primarily doing fix and flips. And we were mostly finding them through wholesalers. Because wholesalers essentially do a lot of work door knocking buy lists from the county and wherever. And so they assign contracts to the investors and the investors essentially, improve the properties.
Roy Barigayomwe
For the most part, these are properties that needs TLC, and then put them back on back on the market, or maybe one or two you can hold on to. So primarily, we did fix and flips and we found them through wholesalers. But every now and then these properties came from lenders. One particular one I remember in Hamblin Avenue and St. Paul, our lender had this borrower that failed to perform. So they were like, Hey, you guys have performed before. So I'll pass this on to you. So we had some of those as well come through from lenders with borrowers who failed to perform. And then in this market, you might realize the prices of course, pretty high. Essentially, we know that fix and flip is a great place to earn an income. buy and hold is a great strategy to build wealth. Yeah, we got started with a fix and flip and we loved it. And we still do it if a decent deal comes across. But then right now we are diversifying and getting into the buy and hold to build wealth. And also buy and hold that also has a little bit of a niche, the short term rentals we're getting into that space as well.
Mike Swenson
So how are you deciding then? You don't have to go into great detail here. But like how are you deciding which properties to move forward? With in which ones to say no to?
Roy Barigayomwe
Sounds absolutely. So when I just moved to the Twin Cities, I had my text Lin strategy that I was trying to get my wife on board and I was looking out for the county sheriff Sheriff sales sales. Yep. No. And so I would I was not familiar with the Twin Cities. So when I would mention certain areas like hey, this this is coming up for sale very soon and my wife would be like, what neighborhood is it? So, the truth, the reality is there is neighborhoods that are more desirable. So that is really our strategy. And there is neighborhoods that are less desirable where you could do a certain strategy like section eight, where your renters essentially a section eight whereby essentially paid by the state or whatever, right.
Roy Barigayomwe
So we have decided, because we're from different backgrounds, we have different comfort levels, we have decided, what gives us peace is having properties in desirable areas, because essentially, they appreciate better. And when there is a correction, they get hit last right. So that is really what we're concentrating on. It's the crime, like, look out for crime, drive the blocks and see what's going on. Is there developments happening? Is it the only house it's going to be over improved? So essentially, those are some of the things we look out for drive the neighborhood look on. Trulia see how much crime is in that neighborhood. And so that's really what we have decided for us. That is our ID, we call it the investor ID.
Mike Swenson
Awesome. So then, when you talked about doing fix and flips, you had mentioned that you had crews and stuff like that? How were you able to figure out who or because a lot of people wonder, you know, as far as relationships really matter, and finding great relationships with vendors is really important. So how are you able to find those, those great people to work with?
Roy Barigayomwe
Absolutely. Great question. So one of those was we took, we took these courses, and we have courses on fix and flip multifamily, commercial, whichever it is. So we get to learn from my instructors and see what strategies do they have in place to hire their crews, right. So we've implemented some of that we vet our crews. When we have a project, we want to have multiple bids. Okay, we want to make sure we have multiple bids. But also, whenever I met contractors, whenever I was driving, and I came across the contractors van, I reached out ask for their card. And then I asked them to send me some of their work. To get a sense of what quality of work it is. And also drop by when they're doing a project to make sure it is their work. So essentially, you want multiple bids, but you also want to vet their work.
Roy Barigayomwe
Unfortunately, sometimes you'll hire a contractor thinking they're going to be good. And then they turn out to have issues that you know, maybe their style is not necessarily up to what your expectations or their quality of work, they might be licensed by the quality of their work might not fit your expectations. Right, right. So that's kind of how we've been able to hire crews, we've been able to let some crews go because of certain things like that their style, work ethic. You know, we've hired some GCS in the past, and then there are project and then they're going to another project, and we're paying for their time. And also things that really have helped us to essentially, when we find good crews, we want to keep them, make sure you're paying them on time, make sure you set the expectations, right before the deal happens right before the work starts. Set the expectations, tell them what you're willing to pay, pay them on time, but also give them bonuses.
Roy Barigayomwe
We give bonuses why because that attracts them to work for us in future. Right? So yeah, that's all those dynamics come into play. Because really, if you treat the contractors the wrong way, then you're really your projects going to be hard down the road, but also that their work, make sure they live up to the expectations, make sure they're doing work that fits, suits your standards.
Mike Swenson
So how many projects or how many homes do you have that you're working on at any given time?
Roy Barigayomwe
So when we got started, I mentioned how we did we were a part of 10 flips in one and a half years. Yep. That was a lot to take on. We were just newbies in the business. We're just getting started. So it got overwhelming, particularly for
Mike Swenson
How long are you? Were you on a normal flip? Like a normal one flip take?
Roy Barigayomwe
a normal flip would take around about three, four months, five months Max, right? Okay. But because we had all these projects going on at the same time, at one time, we had four flips going on at the same time. We realized we were spreading ourselves thin, right. And then the margins were dwindling as well because if you're spreading yourself thin, that means the projects are going to take longer, right? And then budgets if one project is off course and you have to pour a little more money into it that's going to slip spill over to the next project. So then contractors if you don't have if you have crews As you know, not exactly the right fit, it also makes the project even go longer. So that's what we were doing. But we realized it was a little bit of a headache. So we decided we would rather get just a bunch of a handful of good deals, just a few good deals per year, rather than do five lifts in a year, and have them take longer and be stressed about it and have, you know, resources spread thin.
Roy Barigayomwe
So we've really scaled down to doing a couple of good deals a year. And of course, now that we combined buy and hold with fix and flip, we are very picky. Because I mean, there is individuals who say, I'm going to do the work myself, but our, our ideas, how many deals Can you do yourself, as opposed to, if you hire the crews and supervise them, then you're able to get more done. So as a business ideas, we get a good deal that has good meat on it. hire the right crews, pay them well, and get a good profit on the back end, rather than do a bunch of deals, which are very skinny, and we're hoping that we make money on them. Yeah, we've really scaled down from the experience we had when we're getting started.
Mike Swenson
Yep. So walk through, maybe on the on the front end on the financing piece. You know, not necessarily just you guys specifically, but maybe others, you know, that you've you've been working with? How are you finding the financing? Because I know most people will say, I don't have the money for the down payment. How do I how do I get started in real estate if I don't have the money? Or what are some ways that I can find that money?
Roy Barigayomwe
Absolutely, that is a very key component. And one of the things that we teach people every day in our classes, when we hold webinars every week is there is about five different currencies you can leverage in real estate, okay. Money just happens to be one of them. Time is the other relationships, credibility. Right. So those are all currencies you can bring to the table. Yep. So essentially education to is actually a currency, five of those. So how do we find the money, some of this money we find, because of the credibility we've built, people have seen us do stuff, people literally reach out to us on social media and say, we would like to be a part of your next deal. We have some money, we would love to invest with you. Okay, then we actually have classes that are tailored to teaching you how to talk to investors. The most investable, money in the whole world literally, is in self directed retirement plans. Yes, there is over by now we should be over $30 trillion.
Roy Barigayomwe
Most of that money is invested in stocks. And as if you know anything about stocks, one time you're gaining the next time you're losing so. So one of the ways we have like raised money is to learn how to speak the language to individuals who have money in retirement plans. Yep. And of course, making sure their money is protected by the real estate. So essentially having the the know how of having those conversations has attracted lenders to us. But there is really multiple ways that you can acquire real estate, there is hard money lenders out there, very quick money, but expensive. Then there is people credit building business credit, that's something we've been building since we got started. You know, and there is specific ways that you can build business credit, whereby at this point, we've, we are up to maybe over 80,000 in our business name, that we can also leverage to acquire or at least fund some of the transactions, I would say some of the rehabs.
Roy Barigayomwe
So there is definitely multiple ways it could be a relative, it could be people who have a bunch of money in the other accounts. It could be your own retirement account that you could borrow from actually and invest in real estate. Of course, that money has to go back into your retirement. So yeah, there is definitely a lot of places to find money. But at the end of the day, you want to leverage the other currencies. If you build your credit, but also build relationships, those relationships could convert into lenders, right? Yeah. So and also time, sometimes if you don't have the money, but have the time somebody could bring the money you could partner up, you are the person who invested the time and somebody else brings the money to the table, and they do a deal.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think for some people, it's blocking out the time to really think that through and plan it out. Like what what do I have to offer here? What can I give to somebody? And you know, we've had past people on where they've mentioned, like, Okay, if I'm going to an investor, you don't want to just say, Hey, I don't have any money. Give me your money. And let me try to help you make more money, right? Like you have to show that you're, that their investment is safe with you. So you've got to know your numbers, you've got to have a good plan. And yeah, if it takes a little bit of sweat equity, or a little bit of more time on the early end to get started, that will help you to gain money credibility, to have a proof of concept that you know what you're doing, you've been able to do this before, so that others can trust you.
Roy Barigayomwe
Absolutely. And just show them what you've done. And also just give them the assurance that their money, they're in first position. I mean, depending on how much they lend you. Anything goes wrong, they can liquidate the property.
Mike Swenson
Right.
Roy Barigayomwe
So just showing them the truck record, but also giving them some security for the money they're lending. You know, and of course, the return, what return Are you giving them is that competitive to what they're getting in the stock market, that really helps too.
Mike Swenson
what else is important that you guys help teach others.
Roy Barigayomwe
So really, people have different backgrounds, you know, there is individuals who are like, I don't have a bunch of money. So when I why I love this education is regardless where you are. The other day, I was listening to a teenager, a new teacher who was in math class, it was boring. I don't know if I shared this video on the MLS, and just google found this deal that it could literally make about 70,000 is their teenage Yeah, it's really, there is things in your life that you can start right now executing to help you build a foundation, we like to encourage people that this is not a sprint, unfortunately, many people are like, I want to make money fast, right? If you want to be in this for the long haul, take the time to build a good foundation. So essentially, some of the very basic classes we teach are about how to set up your entity, you might know about how if you set up, if you have a fix and flip business, and you have that set up as an LLC, you're going to be taxed more than if you set up as an escort. If you have a buy and hold, you want to set it up as an LLC, because then you pay, you know, the kind of taxes that you're going to pay.
Roy Barigayomwe
So essentially, having this in place, how to, you know, set up your entity that's foundational, how to build your credit and manage it. You know, all those foundational things, essentially, down the road help you when you're building your business. So don't be in a hurry to be like trying to make a quick buck. Yes, you can make a quick buck. But if you haven't set up your entity, right? The IRS is going to be Hey, you owe us money. And also I like to tell people, even if you have a big portfolio, real estate is also evolving. Right? You might have yet the other day somebody messaged me and say, I have a few doors. What can you guys Teach me, I was like you have the wrong attitude. Because there is things in real estate right now like short term rentals. That's a whole different ballgame right now, if you look at the numbers, my wife is like running some numbers on some of the properties we're trying to acquire. The cash flow on those can be incredible. But of course, you want to make sure your city allows them. You want to make sure you get a license, the right license and all that stuff.
Roy Barigayomwe
So you as an investor, regardless where you are, if you're only getting started, there is things you can do right now that are going to help you in the future. Right? Yep. Just be gracious to yourself, learn the foundations, we tell this to people every day, learn how to set up your entity learn about credit, learn about retirement accounts, maybe you could borrow money from your own, you know, as you essentially grow this business, and if you have a few doors, learn about the latest strategies, for example, the short term rentals, you could convert some of your portfolio into that and it's going to help you. The other class we teach is about pay down paying down debt fast. Right? Many of us have mortgages, and some of us look at mortgages as a liability. What if you are able to pay that down faster? We have a class called velocity banking, which teaches people to pay down debt, student loans, car loans, mortgages, thereby you save that interest and you're able to save interest but also build equity faster. And then you can leverage that equity to acquire other properties.
Roy Barigayomwe
So yeah, yeah, it's it's really incredible. If you want to be in this for the long haul, give yourself grace and learn the right way. Well, since I joined this business I've seen I would say, investors in quads, grow people over lose a bunch of money. Why? Because they did not take the time to learn the right way. The other day, I came across an investor who helped somebody real estate investor, help somebody get a property under contract for deed, but they did not register the deal. Right? Yeah, two years later, the person is not entitled. So I highly encourage you learn the right way. Otherwise You're gonna pay the price down the road, it's just a matter of time.
Mike Swenson
Well, yeah, that's a that's a lot of great information. You know, and obviously, we could we could talk about this at length later. But what I also love is, is you guys really want to focus on helping build financial freedom, right? So talk about that, because obviously, you know, your, your, your wife, you know, has has a has a great job, you know, and she could continue to do that. You could continue to do what you were doing in the past. But talk about the the financial freedom piece of that of why is this investment now of of time and education and learning going to help pay off in the future for you and your wife?
Roy Barigayomwe
Absolutely. So before I actually, when we had the film, business, and things were not really working as we wanted, I was I had literally applied to go to school for a Master's. At some point, I thought PhD, my wife, like, I don't think you want to do that. One of the one of the big pain points was, how are we going to retire comfortably, we love to give back, we love to travel the world, we have some charities with support in Africa, and would love to support whichever ventures even locally.
Roy Barigayomwe
So financial freedom comes into play. Because if we are able to redeem our time, if we know that we have a finite, secure future, then we're able to enjoy our lives, you know, but when you when you look at the way things are going right now, there is not that many people that are going to be able to retire comfortably, because of the cost of retirement homes, the cost of that, right. So essentially, you want to take a hold of your future now, as opposed to hope that it's going to change something magical is going to happen in the future, you're going to really win the lottery. And there is very simple things if you learn ways to pay down your debt, student loan, you know, ways to knock out debt, and then leverage assets that you have things like, if you have a side gig, even though you have a W two that's going to help you save on taxes, right? If you know what you're doing.
Roy Barigayomwe
Essentially simple things like that, that allow you to keep more of your money. Yeah, well, one of the questions we ask every day is, do you want to learn first how to make more money? Or how to keep the money that you make? Cuz if you go out there and make a bunch of money and haven't learned how to keep it, it's gonna be gone. Right? Right. So financial freedom is very important because lots of people are bound in debt. They don't realize there is a way out of that debt, you know, but simple things like having a side gig really allows you to get on that path, to save on taxes and maybe put some of that money to paying down your debt. And then down the road, you're in a better place to invest? Yes, yeah.
Mike Swenson
we've touched on that in the past, and we've had guests on talking about budgeting that because let's say you're making $50,000, and you're spending $50,000. If you think well, if I could just make $100,000. Now, I'll have so much more money. But if you haven't attack the root cause of figuring out how to save money and put money aside and put money towards assets. If you make 100,000, you're probably just going to spend 100. So you've got to tackle both issues, you've got to tackle the spending issue. So that as your income grows, you're able to put more money aside, otherwise, you're just living a higher lifestyle and not putting anything towards financial freedom in the future. You're just spending it. It's just in and out in and out in and
Roy Barigayomwe
somebody said somebody likes to use this statement, you're broke at a whole different level. Yes,
Mike Swenson
thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. How many years have you been in real estate investing?
Roy Barigayomwe
Honestly two and a half years. So but I mean, I'll take your back because I started exploring this back in Uganda, totally different environment. Then I moved to Massachusetts, I bought the CDs. So I was kind of in I would say I was in startup mode. Yeah. But I didn't realize I would have actually written off some of these expenses. But I didn't know that you can be in startup mode for three and a half years. But anyway, my biggest our biggest success we've seen was in the last two and a half years.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, you guys have done an amazing thing. And for you know, we talked about beforehand for people in real estate that just can't get started. You know, there's people like you that have shown Hey, I'm, I'm not doing anything close to real estate right now. And I can plug into a system, I can plug into a program. And I can be successful if I just follow the plan. So congratulations to you and your wife on what you've accomplished. And I'm excited for you to continue to build that and you guys have great hearts. You want to give back you want to help others which is why you have this coaching and training that you're working with people on to help them and show them the path of how do they how they can do that. So why don't you just talk Got a minute or two about, you know how folks can get ahold of you and what you're what you're working on.
Roy Barigayomwe
Absolutely. And Thanks, Mike for putting this together. I really appreciate because really, truth is, there's a lot of religions that could get into this, but they don't realize, right? Sometimes we when people call us they're kind of mixed up. They're like, Oh, yeah, I want to get my license. We're like, Okay, do you want to be the investor? Or do you want to help people buy and sell houses, you can do both. So we like to kind of tell, tell them tell them the difference. So they know what they're headed for. By so thanks for taking, you know, time to do this to educate people out there, because that really helps a lot. So yeah, you definitely can find us on Instagram. It's an ROI. As simple as that. It's no ROI on Instagram.
Roy Barigayomwe
We have webinars every week. So if you go to our Instagram, you should be able to navigate through the link tree to our weekly webinars, we hold property tours as well, every weekend to showcase what we're doing, you get to see the different lips or buy and holds we have a different stages, just so you can get a feel of this and get the confidence. If we can do it, you can do it as well. And so I would recommend that you even our website to could lead you to, I guess our inbox so that we can connect with you. And so that is www.annaroyinc.com Yep, you can find us there as well. We are on Facebook, we actually have a Facebook page called achieve investments. This is where we share about the coaching and class says so that individuals can just hang out with us get to know us and see if we're a good fit for what you're looking for. Right? Because really reality is you want people who kind of feel like they're part of your tribe. And what we want them to feel comfortable about who we are what you're doing, because some people want to sell you something and fly out of town, but we want you to get a sense of who we are, and see if we're a good fit to help you on your journey.
Mike Swenson
Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for coming on. appreciate you sharing and looking forward to hearing your success and growth in the future.
Roy Barigayomwe
Absolutely. Mike, thanks so much and bless you for all you're doing the community
