Robert Taylor - McDonalds Crew Member To 30 Flips A Year
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Robert Taylor is a former McDonald's employee who went from a humble crew person to real estate superstar. He set out with a goal to create $5k/mo in income from flipping, while still maintaining his job at McDonald's. He scaled to 4-5 flips a year while still working full time, and grew to 17 flips his first year on his own. Today he flips 25-30 houses a year in the Baltimore, MD area, and has also accumulated 25+ units he's held along the way. Robert's story serves as a beacon of hope and motivation for aspiring entrepreneurs, reminding us all that success is attainable, no matter where one starts in life.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Learn how Robert utilized being in a W2 job while building a flipping business on the side.
- Master the art of real estate investing for financial freedom, like Robert did.
- Leverage loans to maximize real estate project potential.
- Analyze deals to uncover profitable real estate investments.
- Unlock the benefits of rental properties for passive income streams.
- Scale your real estate business through strategic reinvestment.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Pursuing Financial Freedom
00:04:11 - Transition from McDonald's to Real Estate
00:09:36 - Balancing Work and Real Estate
00:12:08 - Accelerating Project Speed
00:14:39 - Understanding Numbers and Lenders
00:16:46 - Transition to Rental Properties
00:19:27 - Sourcing Deals and Building Relationships
00:23:13 - Budgeting for Real Estate Projects
00:25:28 - Setting Realistic Income Goals
00:26:11 - Finding Balance and Setting Boundaries
00:27:22 - Connect with Robert
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Robert Taylor
The initial thought was always, I wanted to replace my job income so I can be at a position at freedom. So at that point, I needed to get to $5,000 a month in cash flow. That's 60,000 a year. That should cover my mortgage, my car payment, so on and so forth. So I looked at what were my bills and how much would that cost, and then how could I create cash flow to pay for that? In the beginning, I didn't have the cash to put down 20% down payments on each rental. So that's where I used the flip as a vehicle to build up my cash flow. And then once I got to a point where I felt like I had some dispensable cash, I started to purchase rentals. So that pRobertably took about a year and a half before I saw rentals.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the REL Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some REL Freedom together. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of REL Freedom. Talking about real estate leverage, freedom, building time, and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. And I'm super excited about today. We've got an amazing guest with a really great story. We've got Robertert Taylor on. Robertert actually started out at McDonald's, worked his way up into higher management, and then decided he wanted to pursue real estate, and so got into flipping. You've also done some buy and hold and ground up construction. On average now you're doing about 25 or 30 flips a year. Currently doing nine projects, which is a lot. And so we'll talk about how you've been able to build that going from your start all the way up to today. So, Robertert, we're so excited to have you on the show.
Robert Taylor
Hey, how are you doing, Mike, thanks for having me on the show today. Really excited.
Mike Swenson
So, yeah, why don't we just get started, share a little bit about your background. Would love to hear your story and really to talking know, for people that get into real estate, there's a lot of transferable skills that you build, whether it's tangible skills, operational skills, people skills, management skills, and all that. So I'd love to kind of hear about your background and how you build and grew at McDonald's and then got into real estate.
Robert Taylor
As you mentioned earlier, I started off my career in McDonald's while I was working, going through high school. It was kind of my part time job. When I started out in college, I was working as a crew person at McDonald's. I had the opportunity over the summer to go into management. I never really thought it was going to be something that I did as a career. I was actually going to college to be an accountant. However, my process of filling out my application, I was like one of the first to kind of go to college in my family. So didn't get really a lot of help on that part. Took a lot of credits. Went back for my second semester. It was like, oh, you owe like five grand. And I didn't have the five grand, wasn't able to get the five grand back. So I had to kind of work at McDonald's to figure out how I was going to try to pay it back and move forward, but went into management over that summertime, became a crew leader, worked all through the ranks. I ran my first store when I was 22 years old. So that was really exciting. So at that point I had like 60 employees. Everybody's older than me working for me. And I just had to learn the hard way. All of those skills on how to manage people, manage product and build sales, marketing, all of those aspects of the business, I had to learn that way. So I was able to do that. Over the next couple of years, I became a supervisor, end up doing a business consultant where I would consult to franchisee owners on how to run their business and how to build more profit and sales because I kind of already did it as a supervisor. And then later on I became a deployment manager, which was in charge of 1200 stores, Baltimore, Washington, Eastern Shore, Philadelphia, North Carolina, all of them, my section, every new products that deployed out, I was responsible for that. I actually rolled out the first kiosks that you see in the McDonald's yet in Cambridge, Maryland, I rolled out about 1000 of those projects throughout the whole east side, east coast essentially, and end up winning the president award, which is the top 1% global executives in the world for McDonald's corporation. And then nine months later, I quit my job to do real estate full time. One of the cool stories and why that ended up happening is that I had just been going through the ranks. I got promoted to a business consultant and we were told as employees, like they were going to do budget cuts. So some people was going to lose their job. So they told us to go to work on Friday and they would let us know whether or not we had a job or not. So nothing for sure. Sitting there waiting, thinking I had a wife, two kids, I'm like, man, if I lose my job today, how am I going to handle these things had no plan b in place. So that really made me feel some type of way. I ended up not losing my job and I still got promoted moving forward. But I said, I need to create a plan b. And that's what got me into real estate. Watching hdtv, me and a wife every night, talking about what we could do if we had a house. And that kicked it off right there. Start attending meetup groups and just learning about real estate process. And fast forward to today. Like you mentioned, I do about 25 to 30 projects per year, own rentals. I've ground on new construction. All of these things I've learned over the last six years I've been in the business. So yeah, that's my story. That's awesome.
Mike Swenson
And it's so great to hear because there's so many people in real estate full time. Me as a real estate agent and working with investors, I talk to agents that are like, oh, I don't know what to do in real estate for investing. I don't know how to get started and they're in real estate and to have somebody, that's why I love stories of people coming from outside of real estate and going to the meetups and learning, but then at some point it's diving in and saying, yeah, I'm going to do that. And for a lot of people, they love the idea of now I control my own destiny. I don't have to worry about somebody coming and saying, yeah, you do, or you don't have a job. You're in control of that.
Robert Taylor
Now.
Mike Swenson
That doesn't mean it's easy. It's really challenging. But at the same time, it's cool to know that you can't have somebody come and take something away from you that you've worked so hard for. But yeah, so in terms of kind of getting started in real estate, tell us a little bit more about that. Maybe finding the first project. First couple of projects. Would love to hear more about that.
Robert Taylor
Yeah. So like I mentioned, one thing I started doing is I start listening to podcasts on my way to and from work. Like you said, I had no background in real estate, knew nothing about it. I was doing what I seen on tv, attended meetup groups, and just trying to learn all about the difference from fix and flip to wholesaling to buying holes. A lot of different aspects that you kind of can go. I started off trying to do wholesaling. I remember being out in the corral by the McDonald's, talking to sellers on the phone while I was trying to be at work. That was just too much to do. I was working a full time job. So then I went off until thinking about fix and flip. But I knew you needed a lot of capital upfront to start. So it actually took a loan from my 401 at the time to do my first fix and flip deal. Got me a local realtor. It took me a year for me to find my first deal. Just kind of trying. I was getting outbid by all the big investors. It was just so hard to find a deal because I didn't really know what to do at the time. So it took me a year to get my first deal, got my first deal on the contract. I bought a house in Baltimore for $55,000. End up spending about back then you could spend $65,000 on a rental, that's pRobertably double the cost now, but 65,000 on the rental and then sold it for like 180, maybe like a 20. It was supposed to be a 25, $30,000 profit. I end up breaking even because I did everything wrong that you can think of. My contractors walked out on me and the process just didn't go well with me. But I learned a lot of lessons from that. I reached out and found some local mentors that could kind of help me out and give me some more guidance on the second one. And then I continued to get better and build a process from there. But like I said from the beginning, just podcasts, meetup groups, YouTube videos, anything I could find on real estate and then really got into it when I got a mentor and kind of helped me through the process.
Mike Swenson
For a lot of people, the advice that I give is to treat your first one like a learning expense. If you're going to pay money to go to college or you're going to pay money to take some real estate classes, it's going to cost you money. And so if you can walk out of that first deal, break even, then it's good because you've learned so much versus if I walk out of it thinking I'm going to have a cash in hand for $30,000. Now, that would be nice to have. But at the same point, the lessons that you learned are really going to help you to be able to do more and more on your future deals because you're going to do more than one deal, not just one. So glad that you didn't come out negative, because I know a lot of people that come out negative on the first one.
Robert Taylor
Yeah, definitely. I think that really it was so many lessons from dealing with contractors, how to manage contractors, timelines, everything that they don't really talk about. When people talk in good forms, they kind of give you high level, but getting into the weeds of the details and stuff like that, I really improved my skills moving forward. I still made more mistakes as I went through the process, but I learned a lot to move forward. But it was tough. And I actually bought my second flip while I was waiting for my first one to be finished. I kind of put the cart before the so, but it definitely worked out and I'm definitely happy how it panned out to where I'm at right now.
Mike Swenson
Now, when you were doing those first couple, was that still when you were working at McDonald's or had you kind of cut off at that? So you were able to do both at the same time, manage the projects as well as while you were still working full time?
Robert Taylor
Yeah, that was a great point. I actually end up doing roughly around four to five flips a year while I was still working full time. So my first two or three years, I was still working full time before I eventually left my job, and I was able to build up enough income from doing the flips that it replaced. My, I had a six figure job in McDonald's at that point, so I was able to replace that income. So it made me more confident to go ahead and kind of lead the company at that point. But yes, it definitely had to figure out processes on how to manage the contractors while I'm at work 60 hours a week. So everything had to be very detailed. My plans, I had to be more organized. I had to create processes that allowed me to not have to be on a day to day dealing with the contractors calling me or things of that nature. So it really helped out. But yeah, I was able to get about five or six flips per year while working. And then once I quit my job the next year, I did 17 flips, so I was able to double the number up. Kind of had the pressure of taking care of the family and everything like that. So I really had to make sure it delivered.
Mike Swenson
So now, did you do any of the work yourself on the property? Did you end up hiring anybody in house or were you just working through other contractors?
Robert Taylor
Yeah, so I definitely had contractors on the first one, the second one, after I kind of got burnt a little bit, I was like, well, maybe I should try to gc this. And I remember having my uncle, my cousins, and my brothers in there doing demo. PRobertably didn't have them set up straight. We didn't have masks on and stuff. We did have hard hats, but then people told me about, that's pRobertably not the best idea from a safety standpoint and health standpoint. So I never did that again. But, yeah, after that, I just used contractors and was able to, I kind of do a different model now. I call it the labor only model, but in the beginning, I started off with contractors. I would get kind of burnt with the contractors. It would take them too long to get the jobs completed. You would give them a lot of money up front. Then when they get towards the back of the job, they don't have any money to finish out the construction. So I went away from the contractor model to a labor only model where I essentially pay for the service due. For example, like framing. If they frame the house out, I'll buy the materials on my account so I can get the discount. And then after they finish the framing, I would pay them for the job finish. So that way, if something happens, if they need to walk away from the job or they don't finish, or I don't like their service, I still have the money in my pocket to pay the next person if I had to bring somebody else in, and it's almost like dangling that carrot in front of them, keep them moving quickly throughout the process to finish the house. So that really helped me accelerate the speed of finishing projects from, like, four months to a dual row house to finish it in two months. So that really was an eye opening point for me.
Mike Swenson
Let's talk about the financing and how that worked. Just as you were building and scaling a lot of people, that's what scares them to start is I don't have the money. I don't know how to go find the money. What did you do to kind of build that momentum at the beginning?
Robert Taylor
So, as I mentioned before on my first flip.
Mike Swenson
Just the 401K?
Robert Taylor
Yeah. Well, no, that was only on the first flip. So the first flip, typically I say to people, you need somewhere between 30,000 and $40,000 to do a flip. Now, it doesn't have to be your money, but that's what you're going to need to kind of your closing costs, the money you got to put down as a down payment, your holding cost to carry all those things, you're going to need about that amount of money. So I was able to get a $30,000 loan for my 401, and that's what I used as my float for my first deal. Of course, when I got to the second deal, I didn't have another 30,000 to do the second House. So what I end up doing is talking to friends and Family. Was able to get a loan from a family member for another 30K, which allowed me to do my second deal. And then from there, it was kind of like creating a snowball effect. So my first, maybe seven or eight deals, I never touched any of the Money that I made on the flips. So if I was making 20,000, $30,000 per flip, I would just take the Money, reinvest it back into the Business. So I went from two flips at a time to three at a time to four at a time. And if I'd have took the profit out the Business, I wouldn't have been able to scale like that. So by the time I got to the Full flip, I was doing four at a time. That's 30. 30. I needed $120,000, but I was just taking the Profit. I was making out the first two to reinvest and kind of starting that snowball effect. And that's how I was able to scale up pretty quickly. I still use for the main loan in terms of like, for example, if I needed 180,000, I still was using hard Money loans for the main loan, but I then I would get private funding for the carrying Costs and the down payment and stuff like that. So really was able to leverage the.
Mike Swenson
Money very well because I'm just thinking about what objections or kind of what issues people on the outside listening to this might have. But how did you know how to run your numbers in that case? And then even to build Relationships with lenders? So it's one to kind of know, I'm getting the Money, I'm able to pay off the Loans. But talk about how you were able to run the numbers. Did you do, like, deal calculators? And then you kind of figured out, okay, if I'm getting this Money back, then I can use it into the next one. Or how did that Process work?
Robert Taylor
I think it's to the point you kind of made one of the Benefits I had from Working in McDonald's and Dealing with People, products, sales, P l profit, Business aspect. I still understood business numbers. So that was a benefit I had. But one of the resources that I use was rehabvaluator.com. So rehabvaluator.com has a really good calculator that you can go in and you put in your numbers what your purchase price is, how much your renovation cost is, how much you're paying interest. And it just will calculate and tell you, like, okay, you would make this amount in profit and then it also has an option on it that you can use it as for rental properties. So it'll give you a choice to see if this property would be a flip or be a rental, what the numbers would look like. So you just enter it in and calculate it out. Everybody pretty much used the same analysis, 65% of the ARV or 70% in some cases. A lot of people pRobertably use 70%. So I was able to go to the different website. I literally went online and searched hard money lenders because I heard everybody's getting hard money loans. And the first one popped up for me. One of them is limaone.com. So I went on there, filled out the information, and they approved me, and they funded my first deal in terms of the bulk capital outside of the 30,000 for the floating. So I was able to do that. Then I started attending meetup groups, and then I ran into some other lenders there. That lender, they gave the terms. I went and put it into the calculator online and kind of went from there. That was kind of how I figured out the analysis on that. But that's very important that you understand that, because a lot of people make mistakes on not analyzing the deal properly. And that's where you really can get hurt if you don't make your money on the buy. That's what we like to say. You should make your money on the buy. And don't get emotional with it. Don't think that you're going to just improve a house way beyond what the neighborhood says the value is. So some people think that, like, I'm going to go in, I'm going to put gold toilets in and it's going to shoot up the price. It doesn't work like that.
Mike Swenson
Now, at what point did you decide that you were going to start holding these? Because I know you mentioned you've got 22. So how early in that journey did you decide to hold? And then now, what's the decision criteria using whether or not you're just going to flip it or whether you're going to hold it, and would love to hear more about that.
Robert Taylor
So a couple of things. The initial thought was always, I wanted to replace my job income so I can be at a position at freedom time, freedom. If I want to go to work, I can if I can't. So at that point, I needed to get to, originally $5,000 a month in cash flow. So I was like, okay, that's 60,000 a year. If I can get 5000, that should cover my mortgage. My car payment, so on and so forth. So I looked at what were my bills and how much would that cost, and then how could I create cash flow to kind of pay for that. So that was my first thought. In the beginning, I didn't have the cash to put down 20% down payments on each rental. So that's where I used the flip as a vehicle to build up my cash. And then once I got to a point where I felt like I had some dispenable cash, I started to purchase rentals. So that pRobertably took about a year and a half before I saw a lot of rentals. And then once I learned the burr strategy, buy, renovate, rent, refinance. Once I learned that strategy, I was like, wow, I can do these over and over again and not really have a lot of money out of pocket. That was a game changer right there. So I just continued to do that process to build up to that. So I was able to achieve past the 5000 cash flow per month. And that really changed things because now I didn't have to be as desperate on the flips if they didn't work or take deals that I really didn't want to do because I just need to do something I could focus in and find great deals because that was added income to what the cash flows already paying my main bills. That was a good point. It was the second part of your question. I forgot it.
Mike Swenson
Oh, no.
Robert Taylor
Yeah.
Mike Swenson
I'm just curious kind of when you decided to get started, but I do have a follow up question. So then I'm assuming from a tax perspective, having those rentals has the depreciation that's going to help offset some of your flipping income. Because I know a lot of times people that are just straight flippers, it gets to be very taxing, literally to be just a flipper.
Robert Taylor
Absolutely. So it definitely helps with that. It's funny, I just did a car segregation amongst my rental properties and saved significantly on that. So as you build that rental portfolio, it definitely gives you the tax write offs. You have maintenance things, you have reinvestment costs. All those things kind of go into that to help you with the taxes. So that was a good point. Flipping can get expensive with 40% to 45% off the cost of what you make. But there's a lot of other things that you can do within that that kind of can help you. And all the write offs, I mean, your vehicle, your insurance, different things like that. Your employees, you can find different things to write off to help you there. When it comes to that, but the rentals do help significantly.
Mike Swenson
Now in terms of keeping the lights on. With your 25 to 30 flips a year, how are you sourcing these? I'm sure you've built up relationships over time, but how are you able to find those deals and keep that pipeline strong?
Robert Taylor
So I do do some off market stuff myself, like cold calling. I have cold callers that work for me in house, but 80% of my deals really come from wholesalers. They go out and find the deals, they work in the area. And once you kind of build a reputation that you're going to buy or they know that you're going to deliver on closing on a project that you get under contract, they tend to bring more deals to me. So of course, six, seven years later, I have several relationships with wholesalers, realtors as well, that bring me deals and they understand, I always explain to my realtors that if you bring me a deal on the front end when I buy it, when it's kind of cheap, when I sell it on the back end, I'll bring that deal right back to them. So they end up getting two commissions. So that's a secret to kind of keep them wanting to work with me because they know they're going to get two commissions off of one, pretty much off of one house. And then far as the wholesalers, it's just relationships. Facebook is a good place to go looking for wholesalers. You can put in real estate, Baltimore real estate, New York, wherever you are and search it, or wholesalers New York or Baltimore, et cetera. And in those groups, you can join those groups. They typically post in deals in there. A lot of them might not be the greatest, but if you get relationship dm directly to the wholesaler, get onto their buyers list. I try to get on as many as I can and I set up an email separately just for those deals to come through. And I just kind of go through and run it through the analysis and see if something makes sense. So you got to be patient. You don't want to just take anything. But at the same time, wholesalers is a good resource, realtors as well, for on market deals and then auctions. So auctions is another one. So you can search local auction, whatever your state or city is, look at those sites and you'll find a lot of great deals on there where you can save on cost. So that's how I find a lot of deals.
Mike Swenson
I've had great relationships with wholesalers. Some people say, well, why would I use a wholesaler? Well, they're deal finders it saves you a lot of time. There's a lot of hustle that's involved in that. And once you show that you can close on deals, they want to bring them to you because you're the one that's helping them close and helping them get paid. And so that being said, just like real estate agents or investors, there's also bad ones out there too. And so you've got to kind of find the good ones. But that's where the relationship piece comes in, that over time you're earning their trust. It's not, hey, got this deal for 100, I'm going to sell it for 100 and put in $20,000 and it's going to be worth $400,000. Like, I see a lot of wholesalers that post that, you've got to vet it out and they're still learning too, right? So they might be newer, they might be still trying to get strong in their numbers. But yeah, we've had great deals come from wholesalers.
Robert Taylor
Yeah, some people get emotion because they're making a fee. Like you said, they got there doing the work. I know what it costs to do marketing and stuff myself, so I definitely know that they spending some money to find these deals. But if it still makes sense for what I want from a profit standpoint, then, hey, I'm all good with that.
Mike Swenson
We were just talking about that with somebody else the other day about when the deal comes to me. What do I care what the wholesaler makes? If the deal makes sense when it comes to me, well, great, because then I can send it to my investors. And sometimes if it doesn't make sense, we go back a little bit and say, hey, can you carve anything out? But if you're asking a wholesaler to take a discount every time, they're going to go somewhere else and find the person that will pay them all the way. So it's a relationship business and that's great. So in terms of the future here, what are you looking to continue to do? You mentioned some of the ground up new construction, but curious to see in the next couple of years where you're thinking you're going to go right now.
Robert Taylor
In terms of pace of flips. I've been doing the ground up new construction. The reason why I like ground up new construction is because it's more predictable, a little bit more than the flips, because you can look at the cost. I mean, of course you got the cost of the land and then the cost of the build, but that kind of stays in line more. When you do a flip or rehab, you might have a budget thinking you're going to do it for $90,000. Of course, you put a 10% buffer in there. However, once you open up the walls and you can get into other things, that cost can kind of go up a little bit, which becomes unpredictable with the ground up new construction. I like the fact that it's just kind of locked into what the cost is. The cost. You're building the same house. So if I go to another land site, I could build that same property over again and kind of dial in where my costs are. So that's good. And the other piece to it is the profit potential. So when I look at for me currently, and I didn't start like this, but currently for fix and flip, it has to make at least 50k for me to do it. If it doesn't now, I'm not saying that you have to start off like that. I started off with 2025k, so I'm not saying that. But for me to make it make sense and I can be a little bit more choosy at this point, 50k is the threshold for a flip, but on a new construction ground up, 100k is a profit that I can make on that. So for every two flips, I could do one new construction. So when I look at economies of scale and looking at my business and say, okay, how can I do a little less but at the same time still make my dollar amount that I want to make in terms of profit? The ground of reconstruction is barely appealing to me because of the double in cost that you can make profit.
Mike Swenson
And I think that's something that I hear from people that are on the show a lot know this is an evolution. So somebody might look up and say, well, Robertert's choosing these high dollar things. Well, that's because you've gotten a little bit better. A little bit better, a little bit better. It's evolved, and now your value of your time has gone up, and so you get to choose the stuff that you get to work on. And so it takes a few years to get to that point, but now you're in the spot where you can choose the projects and choose the type of thing you want to work on that's going to produce the highest dollar return for you.
Robert Taylor
Yeah, and that's the same thing. I do some coaching for people that's getting into real estate and stuff like that. And I always tell them, they look at where you are now and say, okay, like you said, it's just oh, how can I do that? But I started off at the first flip and not really making money on the first flip, and just do whatever you need to do to make it make sense for you. Because one thing about this real estate, of course, made the most millionaires in the world in the United States, is my understanding of it. So it's definitely a reason why people invest in real Estate. But you got to decide what's enough for you. If you're making $100,000 a year or you make it $50,000 a year, well, how many flips would that take to replace that income? You don't have to make 500, $600,000 if you want to. It's an opportunity to do that. But level off of where you want to go. If you want to make $100,000 a year, you need to do, let's say you're making 30,000 a Flip. You might have to do three to four flips year. You can build up to that. Start one while you're still working full time and then go to two. And then once you get to three or four, maybe you can start deciding if you want to stay or go. That's your choice. Or just continue to work and make an extra $90,000 on the side per year. I'm sure people can use that. That would be great. So I think it's all your balance. One thing I found in this business, I'm very competitive. So you get around a bunch of investors, and they're doing this, that, and the Third, and my Natural State is like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it. But I'm learning that you got to find balance and find out ways your cut off point so you can stop and just make it comfortable for you. Run your own race, as I like to say.
Mike Swenson
That you hang around?
Mike Swenson
We have a MembershiP.
Robert Taylor
Awesome.
Mike Swenson
Well, Robertert, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. There's a lot of great nuggets in here for people that want to reach out to you and learn more about you or perhaps maybe consider coaching or something like that. How can they do that?
Robert Taylor
They can follow me on Instagram at Robert clip houses.
Mike Swenson
Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. It's really exciting. It's awesome to hear where you're at, how it's evolved over time and best select you in the future.
