Mike Swenson - Is Airbnb Still Worth It? Short-Term vs. Long-Term Rentals
In this episode, our host Mike Swenson, who manages 4 short-term rentals, dives into the ongoing debate: Is Airbnb still a profitable investment, or are long-term rentals the smarter choice? We break down market trends, profitability, and legal challenges that could impact your decision. Learn about the costs, management differences, and risks of each strategy, plus a financial comparison to help you maximize cash flow. We also explore hybrid strategies like mid-term rentals and the future of short-term stays. Whether you're a new or seasoned investor, this episode will give you the insights you need to decide which rental model works best for you!
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover the untapped potential and profitability of Airbnb and VRBO in today's real estate market.
- Learn the advantages and considerations of short-term, long-term, and midterm rentals for maximizing your real estate investments.
- Gain valuable insights into effectively managing short-term rental properties for increased returns and tenant satisfaction.
- Navigate the complex landscape of legal and regulatory considerations for rental properties with confidence and clarity.
- Master the financial analysis of rental property investments to make informed and strategic decisions for long-term success.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:03:35 - Factors Affecting Rental Profitability
00:08:03 - Reasons for Short-Term Rental Demand
00:10:56 - Pricing and Seasonality
00:14:12 - Understanding Regulations and Legal Challenges
00:17:14 - Costs and Management Considerations
00:23:58 - Income Volatility and Midterm Rentals
00:25:08 - Benefits of Short Term Rentals
00:26:05 - How to Have a Successful Rental Business
00:26:17 - Conclusion and Call to Action
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Read the full transcript:
Mike Swenson
For us with the bookings that we're doing. If I were to rent it out as a long term rental, the winter months are probably pretty close to what I would be getting if I did it as a long term rental in the summer months, it blows it out of the water. Probably looking at 2x to 3x 4x maybe what you could rent it out as as a long term rental.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the Real Freedom show where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.
Mike Swenson
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of Real Freedom where we talk about building time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I am your host, Mike Swenson. If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, check out our website, freedom through realestate.com that's freedom through real estate.com. there's a lot of great information on there.
Mike Swenson
There's lots of different ways that you can make money in real estate and I want you to find a path that works for you. I want you to get excited about a certain area within real estate because it truly is worth it and the journey is worth it. And so go check out the website also if you do want to get started investing yourself. If you click on the Invest button, you can find out how you can get started with little to no barriers. Working with us, we work with investors that want to invest in deals and we place capital into amazing opportunities.
Mike Swenson
So go check that out now. Today I want to have a little bit of a discussion about short term rentals versus long term rentals versus midterm rentals. A lot has been talked about it over the last few years. For those that don't know, I actually manage four short term rentals. So we've been doing that now for a year.
Mike Swenson
We've been super host status and so we've had quite a few guests on here that have had short term rentals over time, some midterm rentals and so just want to be able to provide you with some thoughts, things to think about as you're exploring if that is an option for you. So excited to talk about that kind of short term versus long term versus midterm rental stuff today. So number one, the question that people are always asking is is Airbnb still profitable today? Is VRBO still profitable today? And I would say it really just depends on the market.
Mike Swenson
I think sometimes people try to cast such a big blanket over everything to say, oh, Airbnb aren't working well, they may not be working in a particular city or a municipality just passed some regulations that outlawed it. And so, yeah, it's not going to work there. However, if you look at it, let's just say we're talking about the, the sake of the United States. There's so many different states, there's so many different opportunities. You've got high urban populated areas, you've got kind of middle of nowhere areas where people want to retreat to.
Mike Swenson
You've got warm temperatures, you've got cold temperatures, you've got tourist destinations. So lots of different places out there. So to have a blanket statement saying that it's working, it's not as well as it used to be, or it's better than it used to be, it's really hard to say. So look around in your market and get a sense, talk to people, find out who's running short term rentals in your community or in your area, find some data, see what they have to say to see if it's going to work for you. Now I'm kind of taking this approach to you're probably looking to invest in the market that you're in, trying to decide short term rental, long term rental.
Mike Swenson
So while you're looking at your particular market, maybe there's an area an hour away, two hours away, where it may not be beneficial in your specific area where you live, but you could manage reasonably in an area within, like I said, an hour or two drive from you. So here in the Minneapolis St. Paul area, we have a lot of stuff happening in the Twin Cities. We've got suburbs, we've got smaller cities and then we've kind of got up north. And so there's a lot of different opportunities that I could be evaluating all within a couple hour drive.
Mike Swenson
So think about that, think about all the needs of the area. The one thing that I will say to hopefully challenge people's mindsets is we're thinking about a short term rental as hospitality. Right. Is somebody still going to stay in a hotel in a particular city? If that answer is yes, then you probably can run an Airbnb if it's allowed.
Mike Swenson
So reasons that we've had people stay at our properties. Now I'm in the Minneapolis St. Paul area in a couple different suburbs. And so I chose to focus on that because it's a little less seasonal. It's not as much of like the, the touristy come for the summer stay by the lake.
Mike Swenson
There's constantly people coming for various things. So reasons why people have stayed at our short term rentals. They're visiting family. They live somewhere else. There's family in town.
Mike Swenson
They're coming to visit family. They're coming to visit friends. They've moved away for college. They've got jobs in other states. They're coming back to visit those friends.
Mike Swenson
They're taking a vacation in Minneapolis St. Paul. There's a lot of stuff to be able to do. So they're coming here for a vacation. Doesn't have to be just in the summer.
Mike Swenson
They're coming in town for a funeral. We've hosted quite a few families that have come in town for a funeral. There might be two or three brothers, sisters, husbands, nieces, all coming to stay under one roof. Uh, they're in town for work. Right.
Mike Swenson
There's lots of businesses here, lots of work needs. It could be corporate headquarters is nearby. It could be they're working some type of trade job. We've had like fiber optic Internet installers come through. They're in town for work and so they're here for a couple of days.
Mike Swenson
They're visiting the tourist destinations. Right. There's a lot of cool things to see. Minneapolis St. Paul.
Mike Swenson
So they're coming to be able to see that. People traveling through me in Minnesota. I'm driving out to Nashville, Tennessee. There's a night or two where I'm stopping somewhere, maybe I'm seeing some sights. So I'm not necessarily going to that place, but I'm traveling through that place and need a place to stay.
Mike Swenson
Moving. So we had a couple that just came here moving up from California, Waited a couple of weeks for their house to close. They needed a place to stay. They had some kids don't want to stay in a hotel room having surgery. Minneapolis St.
Mike Swenson
Paul's got some great facilities, medical facilities. So people are coming from other states here for surgeries and recoveries. So we had somebody that had knee surgery, stayed in the house for three weeks after recovering from knee surgery. Local conventions or events. Minnesota State Fair.
Mike Swenson
We had multiple properties, maybe three, if not all four of our properties. There were family visiting to come to the state fair. Concerts. We had people come from Canada for concerts in the United States. Sporting events.
Mike Swenson
I know Vikings games, Timberwolves games. Wild games. Yes. And Twins games. And we have somebody coming for professional women's hockey coming here in a couple of weeks.
Mike Swenson
So pretty much all the major sports have been represented of people coming and staying in our short term rentals for that. Pokemon tournaments. There was a gaming convention that was happening. So people came in town for that There was a climbing event held at one of the climbing facilities here in the Twin Cities. Couple came up.
Mike Swenson
We have a lot of people coming from Iowa, Kansas City area, Chicago and then obviously places where people have to fly. But a good, you know, six, seven, eight hour drive, people are coming here for that type of stuff. Curling competitions. We had a few people have stayed in our properties for curling competitions. And then the other thing I just want to say is as a family of five, we've got three boys.
Mike Swenson
We really don't want to stay in a hotel. It's hard, especially as our kids get bigger. Most hotels have two beds. My wife and I are on one, two of our kids are on the other. We used to have all three of them sleep in one bed, but now that they're getting bigger.
Mike Swenson
Right. Two of them will sleep on one bed. Sometimes we do like the pull out couch or the cot thing. Our kids are getting less and less excited about that. And so there's lots of people that I know that have families of four plus that may not want to stay in any hotel.
Mike Swenson
And so it's not just a matter of tourist destinations or vacations, but life happens. People are staying in hotels. And so these are all reasons why people might want to stay at a short term rental. You just have to think about what is that option for me and my community or the area that I'm looking at and is that reasonable that somebody may want to stay for that? I currently have chosen not to look at an Airbnb, you know, up north where there's, you know, fishing in cabin country because I'm not quite sure about the foot traffic that comes through in the winters.
Mike Swenson
It's cold in Minnesota now. People come for ice fishing, snowmobiling, different things like that. But what happens if the weather doesn't cooperate? What if it's too cold or not enough snow or different things like that. And so to have a business based on how is the weather works out.
Mike Swenson
Well, when the weather works in your favor based on what you're doing, but if it doesn't, that's kind of out of your control. So all variables, all different things to think about. But I want to challenge your mindset around why people might stay there. Just because you don't live in Florida near Disney doesn't mean that people don't want to come through and stay wherever you're at. So a lot of great ideas there.
Mike Swenson
The other thing that I will say to think about is with the property that you have, what is the condition that it's in. If I'm looking to run a rental, I'm looking for a long term rental. I'm looking for reasonably priced furnishings, appliances. Is it going to work? Well, it doesn't have to be super esthetically pleasing, but does it get the job done?
Mike Swenson
Does it work? If I'm looking to do a short term rent, I need it to pop right, I need the pictures to look great. I need to have some good amenities, I need to have some things that are going to draw people in. And so what's the layout of the bathroom? Is it big enough for people?
Mike Swenson
Is it just a little stand in shower or is it a tub? Kids take baths in tubs. So I had a guest reach out, they were having some problems, you know, running the bath water in the tub. So if somebody's looking to book one of the short term rentals, if it doesn't have a tube, that might not work well for kids. How nice is it?
Mike Swenson
I would tend to think that if your property is in nice condition, you might be able to lean towards a short term rental. But if it's not finished, well, if it's kind of rough around the edges, long term rentals could be great. Midterm rentals are kind of a nice hybrid. A midterm rental we look at as 30 days plus. So if I'm staying a place for 30 days plus, it may not have to have all the bells and whistles.
Mike Swenson
I might be fine with the finishing not being quite as nice and yet maybe, maybe I will. So you kind of have to think about what that properties finished as, how nice it would be attracting somebody from a hospitality standpoint as a short term rental versus housing as a long term rental. And like I said, midterm rental kind of falls somewhere in between. So those are some important things to think about. First as you're kind of evaluating the markets in terms of, you know, occupancy rates, nightly rates, thinking about this as a short term rental, do some research.
Mike Swenson
There's some, some tools out there that you can go look at. Demand based pricing tools work out really well. It's a little bit more set it in, get it. For the most part I've established kind of the, the average nightly rate for the properties and that demand based pricing goes up or down. If something is running a little bit lean, let's say in the winter months, maybe I do a discount where you know, if somebody books something more than a month out, they get 10% off, you know, or something like that.
Mike Swenson
So I can override with additional discounts. But you want to look at what is that average nightly rate. How many nights a month am I wanting to be booked? Some people want to have it be a little bit more elite. I'm going to go for a higher average nightly rate.
Mike Swenson
I don't necessarily want to have a ton of turnover. I don't want to have, you know, as much wear and tear and I can be fine being able to make those numbers work at a higher price. And then seasonality. You know, I will say our short term rentals are relatively full on the weekends. In the winter, they're a little bit less full during the week.
Mike Swenson
Now we did get a couple of long term bookings, like I said. I mentioned about the family that came for three weeks because they are moving into the area. That was a great booking. And then sometimes it might be, you know, a Thursday through Sunday, a Friday through Monday type booking and then maybe Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, there's nobody there. Now when it gets to May through September, pretty much almost every day is booked.
Mike Swenson
It's almost same day turns quite often. So run those numbers. You know, I would say for us, with the bookings that we're doing, if I were to rent it out as a long term rental, the winter months are probably pretty close to what I would be getting if I did it as a long term rental in the summer months, it blows it out of the water. Probably looking at 2x to 3x 4x maybe what you could rent it out as as a long term rental. Now the other thing that we'll talk about is it's a lot more work.
Mike Swenson
It's a totally different beast. So if you're up for that work, great. It's not just about the numbers. Are you looking to get started or scale in real estate investing but don't know your next step? Are you overwhelmed thinking about finding deals, analyzing deals, doing due diligence and managing properties on top of it?
Mike Swenson
Go ahead and push the easy button and invest with us. Real estate investing is what we do full time. We've done dozens of deals with hundreds of doors. We have the knowledge and experience to hand pick the best deals that most investors can't find. We've got large off market deals all the time where you can hopefully find returns and economies of scale that you just can't find on your own.
Mike Swenson
The best thing is it's 100% passive to you for less capital than you put down trying to acquire a property on your own. Don't let this year go by where you don't make the Leap add to your portfolio or you just sit in analysis by paralysis. To find out more, visit freedom through real estate.com and click on Invest. You can book a call and learn more there. So get to scaling your portfolio now with us by your side.
Mike Swenson
All right, so that's kind of the, the overall market trends. Should I or shouldn't I what type of property and that sort of thing? Just some, some things to think about, regulations and legal challenges. So you've got to do some research and figure out what can I do in terms of my city, my state, my county, what types of regulations are out there to be able to do a short term rental or a midterm rental and I guess a long term rental as well. So some of the suburbs here in Minneapolis St.
Mike Swenson
Paul don't allow anything. Some allow it with some restrictions where it might be a certain number of permits are issued per city, a certain amount of permits per block are issued. Some you need to have a rental license, but nothing specific for short term rentals. Some you need to have a rental license and a short term license. Minneapolis has more regulations around how many of them you can have individually yourself, not necessarily based on where they're located.
Mike Swenson
So you've got to do some research into that first. I would in no way recommend, well, what if I just keep it under the, you know, fly it under the radar. Eventually somebody's going to find out. And so you want to be in compliance with the rules. So don't try to do something trying to skirt around those rules because probably over time the rules are going to get more and more, I wouldn't say strict, I would just say maybe say regulated.
Mike Swenson
And in some ways, if a city has already implemented some regulations around short term rentals, that's probably better because they're already saying it's okay. And here's how it's okay. Some suburbs or cities might come out and say, you know, hey, we didn't do anything before, but now we're not going to allow it. That was one suburb in particular in this past year where they came out and said, nope, now you guys can't do it. So if they've already passed some sort of regulation, some sort of licensing, it means they, they know it, they're aware of it, and they're trying to find a way to make it work.
Mike Swenson
And so in some ways I would probably even be more okay going into a city like that versus all sudden you've got a couple in a city and they come and they say, no way, Jose. Now you've got to, you know, come up with a different plan. So think about those challenges, do your research. As a real estate agent, I go straight to the city right away. Whether it's me looking myself, whether it's a client or whether it's a potential future client, I say look, I reach out to the city, hey look, I work with some clients, I'm a real estate agent.
Mike Swenson
We're considering looking at some opportunities in your city for short term rentals. What regulations do you have? What are some things that I need to be conscious of? Ask that open ended question, they'll let you know. And so it's really easy to find that information.
Mike Swenson
Just find the zoning person, permit person. And I also start off each email with saying not sure if you'd be the right person. If you aren't, can you point me in the right direction? Very quickly get to the person that you need that gives you the information that you need. So whether it's short term, long term, midterm, that's how you can go find out that information.
Mike Swenson
If somebody is looking into doing some regulation in a, in a particular city, be a part of that conversation. Go to the meetings, listen to what they have to say. If you have any experience, now's your time to step up and share your experiences and how it can be a win win. If you don't think it's a win win, then that's fine. But if you do think you can do it in a win win scenario, go ahead and do that.
Mike Swenson
So be a part of that conversation. As people are starting to decide and regulate. Don't just bury your head in your sand and hope they don't pick you to be able to not be able to do short term rentals. So go be a part of that conversation. All right.
Mike Swenson
In terms of costs and management, things to think about. So short term rentals and midterm rentals, you're going to be responsible for some furnishings. Midterm rentals, maybe not quite as much, maybe not quite as nice. It's up to you and kind of your property and your, your target market and who you're looking for. But if you're furnishing a house, you're looking at 10 to $20,000 to be able to do that, if not more, depending on how high or how nice you want to go.
Mike Swenson
So can you afford to buy that, that stuff ahead of time? And the one thing I will say is, you know, Facebook marketplace, you can find that kind of stuff. You're not looking to outfit a college dorm though, so what you are looking to get needs to be good quality, nice, not stained, not worn. So if you can find that stuff in your local market through Facebook Marketplace, what have you and save some money, great. But you don't want to just buy a couch just because it fills up the space and it's stained and doesn't look great.
Mike Swenson
Better to probably get something that's slightly used or newer specifically looking and that'll cost you a little bit more, but at least then the quality is there because like I said, with short term rentals you want to be thinking about hospitality, ongoing management. If you're looking to hire somebody for long term property management, I would say depending on your market, 5 to 10%, maybe 12% is reasonable. If you're looking to hire somebody for midterm or short term rental management, you're probably looking 15 to 30% and so that income number is nice. However, once you start to look at what am I paying for management now, if you want to do the managing yourself, if you enjoy that, great, that's your margin to be able to make some money. However, if you're looking to kind of get it off of your plate and outsource that, that's a lot of money, that's a lot of expenses to be able to do that.
Mike Swenson
Also thinking about guest turnover, hiring cleaners, are you going to do the cleaning yourself? Are you going to hire somebody out getting cleaning supplies, getting toilet paper, paper towels, A lot of that stuff gets used and probably gets more used more frequently than yourself. Some of our properties we have, you know, groups of six, seven, eight people. My household of five doesn't go through as much toilet paper and paper towels as a group of eight. So there's a lot of those other things that you need to be think about supplying shampoo, conditioner, curing coffee cups, you know, at about a buck a pop or whatever that might be.
Mike Swenson
If you've got a coffee drinking group, that stuff can be expensive. And so those costs do tend to add up to be thinking about that, running that in your analysis, risks and challenges. You know, as I'm thinking about market saturation, I tend to think you can separate yourself by finding a niche in the market. Whether it's a certain quality, whether it's a certain amount of amenities. The high ultra competitive areas, personally I'm just not as excited about.
Mike Swenson
I'm looking for solid, good quality areas. It doesn't have to be the highest of the highs, but I can find some, some good opportunity. And so that's the type of market that I'm looking at, like I said, Minneapolis St. Paul. There's so many people coming here for various reasons.
Mike Swenson
It's not the extreme tourist destination place. But at the same point we've had quite a bit of demand. I've been pleasantly surprised over, you know, four properties for about a year now. How many people come here for all sorts of various things. So there tends to be good demand in this area.
Mike Swenson
I don't need to go find something in Florida because I'm staying busy enough here now. I will look at those areas because I want a good reason to be able to go find someplace warm in the winter. But I'm okay with, with these properties right now. So I may look at some other markets, you know, kind of with those same type of dynamics without having to compete in the ultra competitive space. So look through that.
Mike Swenson
Vacancies with short term rentals versus risking of bad tenants. I like being able to be in a property once, twice a week, see how things are going, be able to make those repairs. If a wall got some scuff marks on it, if you know, piece of flooring needs to get placed. There's been a water leak. We caught that relatively quickly because we were in there within a couple of days of it happening.
Mike Swenson
That stuff's really nice. When you have tenants for six months to a year, you're not going to see that property for a lot longer. So I appreciate being able to get in there. We, we had a piece of gutter that actually kind of the edge of the gutter came off like the cap and water started getting into the foundation and into the walls. And so we were able to catch that pretty quickly.
Mike Swenson
I'm not sure a long term tenant would have been able to catch that or see that. And so little things like that. It's really helpful to be able to catch some of those kind of maintenance related things. That being said, the wrong group can damage your property really fast. In a short term rental.
Mike Swenson
We had a kind of an unauthorized party had to go in and kick some people out and we had my wife and father in law and I, all three of us worked for about four or five hours to clean it up. Thankfully it was on where there was laminate flooring, not on the carpet in terms of stains and spills and all that kind of stuff. But one bad group can, can really damage stuff really bad. And so that's where you're trying to do your best to vet people. But those surprises can happen.
Mike Swenson
So less likely to happen in a midterm rental long term Rental, you never know. And that's the hard part is, you know, you don't know what you're going to see in a year's time if you don't get in there. Unless you're doing quarterly visits for furnace filters or fire extinguishers and or smoke alarms, you know, changing the batteries, that kind of stuff, that's a good way to get in there. So think about that. And then as it relates to financial comparisons, if you're looking at the two, get a good spreadsheet.
Mike Swenson
We've got some tools you can reach out to us at Real Freedom, be able to help you analyze short term versus long term versus midterm, you know, different things. Whether you're paying utilities, whether tenants are paying utilities, whether you're paying for the toilet paper and the paper towels and all that kind of stuff. Lots of things to think about their income volatility. That's a real thing with short term rentals. You know, the nice thing about midterm or long term is they're paying rent each month.
Mike Swenson
It's coming in, it's consistent here in the short term. Like I said, in the winter we're breaking even, slash probably coming in under what we would maybe get as a long term rental. And yet in the summer it's going to be better. So making sure you've got those reserves saved up to be able to pay for that, those are some things to think about. So short term rental, you're looking at probably a year's time, you know, the ups and the downs.
Mike Swenson
But what is my income over the course of the year and then what am I getting each month? And can you, you know, if, if it is lower and you're running, let's say, a little bit of a deficit, can you have enough cash on hand or enough reserves on hand? And then when you are in that high season, can you maybe put aside some funds to be able to weather the storm through some of those lower periods? So thinking about that income volatility and being able to kind of stabilize your cash flow there. And then I mentioned before, you know, just kind of some other things to think about.
Mike Swenson
The midterm is a great medium opportunity if you have some winter seasons. I have a friend of mine that runs short term rentals. Having a tenant for three months in the winter, that's a perfect solution. It's already furnished, you know, you're getting consistent income and you know, midterm could be a good option year round as well. You get probably a little bit higher quality of tenant you do have to pay for some furnishings.
Mike Swenson
You're not necessarily going to be supplying paper towels, toilet paper for a midterm tenant year round. However, you can make a little bit more income than maybe you can as a long term. So I think a midterm is kind of a good hybrid solution if your market supports that. You can also find if you don't necessarily want to commit all the time to run and manage your short term rentals, finding a co host, finding some partnerships, people to be able to help you, they can do that, they will do it at a cost. However, your time can be valuable too if you don't have the time to commit to that.
Mike Swenson
So I think that's kind of about it in terms of key considerations. So like I said kind of in, in conclusion here, I do think that short term rentals still have an incredible market and will for, for years and years on end because just like a hotel, people are going to want to stay somewhere. And like myself, our family of five, we're going to be less excited about staying at a hotel. For us, short term rentals are great to be able to each have our own bedroom or to be able to split the kids up and at least have each of them have a bed without having to get two hotel rooms. So things like that are really important to consider.
Mike Swenson
And so like I said, I don't think it's going anywhere. It's just finding those opportunity zones within your market depending on where you're at to think about. Like I said, if you're looking for analyzer tools, spreadsheets, that kind of stuff, reach out to me. Freedomthroughrealestate.com We've got some tools on there that we can help you with for analyzing different deals. Would love to kind hear more about your market, walk through that.
Mike Swenson
Feel free to reach out to me if you want to do a little bit of a deeper dive on what should I be considering in my market. Short term, long term, midterm, how does that look? But for now I hope that was helpful for you guys to be able to see what does that short term market look at? What do I need to be thinking about? How do I separate myself and how do I have a successful short term business for rentals or midterm or long term.
Mike Swenson
So that being said, there you have it. Short term rentals, long term rentals, midterm rentals. Are Airbnb still worth it? I'm Mike Swenson. If you want to get started investing in real estate, freedom through real estate, dot com.
Mike Swenson
Check us out. Otherwise, I hope this episode was helpful for you guys. You picked up some great information, and best of luck to you in your next rental journey. Thank you.
