Matt Muscat - Marketing In A Down Market
LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE ON:
Our real estate market is shifting, and for many that means we have to up our game when it comes to social media. Matt Muscat is the Marketing Director at Treadstone Funding, one of the nation's top boutique mortgage lenders. Matt shares with us tangible ways that we can market and gain attention in a down market. He also discusses how we can go deeper on our engagement with others, marketing toward getting a deal, and best practices to stay in front of your database. Matt is also the founder of Maltese Marketing, Author of the book "TAG - Tangible Action Guide for Real Estate Marketing", and the host of the "Marketing In Other Markets" podcast.
In this episode, hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:
- Two of the most important things to do to market in this specific market we're in:
- Preach a message of positivity
- Market yourself personally
- Focus on your personal page
- Make sure your posts are public
- Don’t just post about real estate
- Real estate professionals have to preach a message of positivity.
- Pros and Cons of being a buyer in this market:
- Pros: Negotiate items on the inspection and negotiate closing costs
- Con: Higher interest rates
- Realtors who use social media to grow their business need to remember that real estate can only be a portion of it.
- The top five categories to post on for your social media
- Real estate
- Community (local restaurants, local businesses, local schools, local events, places in the local community)
- Your top 3 passions and hobbies
- If you get interaction and engagement in social media, you will get results.
- Put a strategy in place and do it in a consistent manner.
- All good marketing needs consistency.
- The best way to build consistency is to start with time blocking.
Timestamps
0:00 – Intro to Matt’s Career
1:36 – Background in Real Estate Marketing
4:12 – Two things to Market
8:58 – Categories to Post in Social Media
14:32 – Strategies for Good Marketing
19:29 – Getting Close to an Actual Deal
21:42 – Time Blocking
24:24 – Giving Market Updates
26:20 – How to Find Matt
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Full transcript here:
Mike Swenson
Welcome to The REL Freedom Podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.
Mike Swenson
All right, welcome, everybody to another episode of The REL Freedom Podcast where we talk about building wealth and gaining time and financial freedom through different opportunities in real estate. And so today, we're going to talk a lot about marketing, social media, maybe even marketing in a down market for a lot of folks around the United States, you know, things have changed a little bit with interest rates. And so people are wondering, Hey, I can't just stick a sign in the yard, it automatically sells What do I do. And so we've got a marketing wizard here, Matt Muscat. And he's going to talk to us about marketing and social media.
Mike Swenson
So a little bit about Matt, before we dive in, he is the marketing director at Treadstone. Funding one of the nation's top boutique mortgage lenders, and also founder and owner of multi use marketing. And you serve clients in 38 states and four countries to help them advance digital marketing to create tangible results. You also had a book out the tangible action guide tag for real estate marketing, which was a number one Amazon release. You also have a podcast marketing and other markets, which interviews top producers in the real estate and mortgage world. So you are all about many different things within real estate. So thanks so much for coming on and excited to have you and yeah, just share a little bit more about your background and how you got to where you're at today.
Matt Muscat
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Mike, I really appreciate it. So I went to went to college for marketing. And the last class I took before my fine Alma Mater was about to spit me out into the worst economy the world has ever seen, which by the way, compared to today was like 30 times worse, right? And there were no jobs out there. So I took a last minute class, I switched us into an internet marketing class. And I was like, like, I'm learning something now that I can actually use to help people to make money to do all those things. So after that, I got a job in mortgages, and they said, Hey, if you could convince these people called realtors to like us, they'd probably send us more business. And I was like, Oh, that's a unique approach. But I was like, Well, why would a realtor just send us more business? Because we're here? Like, there's 10 million lenders out there.
Matt Muscat
So I said, Well, why don't I just meet with these agents, give them free internet marketing advice, social media advice. I mean, at that point, social marketing was like new. It was like transitioning off of MySpace and some super weird platforms. So like, Facebook was new and cool. And like, it wasn't like an old person site. And we had we had Twitter, which now only former presidents, US and Kardashians. So it was it was fun. I got to teach Realtors how to do some fun in our marketing, social media, we're able to generate some leads, it was good for our business, it was good for theirs. And from there. 12 years later, I'm still here. It's the best industry on the planet, that the entire real estate industry has grown like we've had like 12 straight years of growth until about a month ago. And now things aren't going down. But they're decelerating. I think decelerating is the word for most of us to remember right now.
Mike Swenson
It's interesting, because a lot of folks haven't been there since the last downturn. I've been in real estate for eight years. So I haven't been in it. And yet the team, the team that I was on when I when I first got in real estate had been through that. And the conversation was, you know, back then the question that these folks asked are, can you sell my home? It wasn't necessarily what's your commission? Are you willing to cut your commission and all that? Yeah, it was, can you literally sell my house because I have to sell it? And they said, you know, we actually made more in commission, because we were the were the experts, right? And we showed that we could do the job with what people needed. And so we're not there yet. And we'll, we'll probably never get there. But at the same time, yeah, people are looking up saying experience matters, Quality Matters.
Mike Swenson
You want to be able to do the right things. It's not just we throw a sign in the yard. And all sudden, a week later, we've got 27 offers, and we just pick the top one where people are waving inspections and all that. So we got to lean into the scale here a little bit. And so that's where what you do really, really makes a big difference in helping people get their word out there.
Matt Muscat
Yeah, so let's talk about that word. So there's two things to market right now. If you're talking about social media, there's two big things. The first thing to market and I can't stress this enough, and I wish I could get on every podcast in the country to get this message out there. We as real estate professionals have to preach a message of positivity. Because the market is friggin fantastic right now, why buyers who lost out on hundreds of offers and saw 1000s of homes, or I should say like saw hundreds of homes and wrote, you know, dozens of offers. They're getting offers accepted now. And it doesn't matter what the interest rate is because if rates go up, they did well with their rate right now. if rates go down, they refinance.
Matt Muscat
There's like no losing sight on the right side. But people think there is. So for us as real estate professionals to preach what a great time it is to buy and that affordability is up. And that there's actually more time to think and make an educated decision. Because we can go through inspections. Again, we can do all these things that were options before. That's the number one message.
Matt Muscat
So if you're looking for like a hey, like, here's one thing to do after I listen to Mike's podcast today, the one thing would be to do a Facebook post, telling your customers, friends and family, what the media isn't telling you about the housing market. And I can tell you right now, that title will get clicks, because it's like it's doing what the media does, it's click baiting.
Matt Muscat
So tell people in a short video or in a post or in a photo or in however you want to what the media isn't telling you about the housing market and talk about the positive side, talk about the fact that prices are still up, talk about the fact that there's no more time to do things talk about the fact that it's a we it is weeding out the negative real estate professionals and those who weren't doing a full time job anyways. So that that one's a little bit more negative than I like. But again, it really promotes the fact that you're in it to win it your full time and you're dedicating time to clients.
Mike Swenson
I was gonna say talking about social media, there's a post that I've seen a few realtors post over the last couple of days where it says pros and cons list of being a buyer in this market. And on the pro side, it talks about being able to have an inspection, and to be able to negotiate items on the inspection, maybe being able to negotiate closing costs, all these things that you can now do with a seller. And then on the con side, it said, higher interest rates, you know, and so it's reminding them that yes, rates are higher, they're still not as high as when I first bought my first home when we got married, you know, and so there's so many great things that can happen. I wish
Matt Muscat
I don't know if anyone can see this, because like this is a podcast, but I'm holding up a book right now that I bought off eBay. This is a mortgage payment calculator from like 1982. For the rates they were predicted to have that year, it starts at 9% and goes to 22%. Just saying like we're not there yet. And even if we get there, they go up, they go down, and they are almost completely irrelevance to the majority of people out there. You marry the house, you date, the rate,
Mike Swenson
what was the number two thing then you'd mentioned about the top two things positivity and
Matt Muscat
positivity and marketing yourself personally, your own personal experience. So I think when you're when you're looking at like how to market, there's two sides to it, there's getting people to like you in the first place, and then convincing them that you know what you're that you know what you're doing? What I'm thinking about social media, my number one message, my number one message is always where where are you posting? And who are you posting to? So the question I usually get is like, well, personal page or business page answers personal page, your business, Facebook, who's gonna like the same people that like your personal page, if so, you're not gonna have the same level of success.
Matt Muscat
Focus on your personal page. Step two, make sure your posts are public. This is the number one mistake I see agents making on social. If you want social media to work for you, you can't be a secret agent, you have to post publicly, but that gives you the potential to go viral, even if you only if your message only stays in front of your friends. And when I see people doing friends only, I think, Okay, well, if you you're not gonna get referrals from your friends to the friends of theirs, unless your stuffs public. So that's the number one message.
Matt Muscat
And then the next one is to make sure that you're not just posting about real estate, you know, the fact that you Mike or a realtor, I hope that's not the most interesting thing about you. Like I see all the football stuff behind you. And I think that's what I want to talk about. Like I want to talk about, like a common interest that we might have, or like your new watches, or even new wine or your beer guy like, what can we what can I learn about you on social that will make you stand out from the crowd of a million realtors in this country or whatever the number is today, or might be tomorrow.
Matt Muscat
Realtors who wants to use social media to grow their business? Need to remember, real estate can only be a portion of that. And it's the getting people to like you. And you can put as many pieces of data, there's one they could like you because you're a mom, because you're a dad because you live in a certain area because you're a foodie, because you're an expert on X, Y or Z doesn't matter. I mean, I have agents who their big thing is their video gamers. And they get referrals all over the country from people that are their video game referral group or video game, little online group. I'm not a video gamer, but that's what they do.
Matt Muscat
Everyone should have something different. And so think about like what categories do you post them out? And are you are you overwhelming people with just one of them? That's That's I think the big message for realtors right now to figure out in their marketing. Is it diverse enough? And does it make them seem interesting? Would you click on it? Or is it all just boring real estate stuff that you shared a link from another website on
Mike Swenson
it? You know, it's it's challenging at times. You know, I think for some folks, they might think what do I do? That's really interesting. What do people care about? out and and I think sometimes they they have a challenge of they're comparing themselves to everybody else like look at so and so that one on this fancy cruise look at so and so that has this big, big house and I'm just starting out like what do I do? I don't want to necessarily post because I don't feel like I have anything interesting. What can you share to those folks that maybe have those types of thoughts.
Matt Muscat
So what I usually tell people is choose five categories, like write down your five categories ahead of time. And your five categories, I can give you three of them, like three of them are the same. First one is real estate, easy. Second one is your community, right? That's posts about local restaurants, local businesses, local schools, local events that are happening, places that you are in the local community. Third, 1/3 one is really going to be one of your hobbies. Third, third through fifth one are going to be hobbies and things that you do. So we all have different ones. And it could be just things that were into passions, hobbies, etc. It could be you're super churchy person, you're super sporty person. For me, it's being a foodie. It's being a dad and traveling. Like those are three of my big ones.
Matt Muscat
And sometimes it's watches wines with my other hobbies too. So every week now, I'm on the lookout for anything that relates to any of those five things, right? So anything community related, oh, I'm at a restaurant, the community. Let's take a picture of me there and like, say something great about it. Or if I don't have anything, because I haven't done anything that week, because I'm so busy. I want to post a question about the community like, Hey, guys, who can tell me the best burger shop in Elk River, Minnesota, or hay like looking for a local babysitter? Does anyone have any recommendations? It doesn't have to be all you posting advice. It can be you asking people love to voice their opinions. And the thing on social media is if you get interaction and engagement, you get results. Doesn't matter if it's real estate related, though.
Mike Swenson
One of the best posts I was gonna say that I always see is what what's something that you're confident you're the only person in my friends list that has achieved or accomplished or, you know, like something unique, that only you have done on my friends list? I see hundreds of comments on that type of stuff. And that's where Yeah, you, you a lot of times think I have to share. But you forget, if I ask a good question, people are going to want to respond. And I comment like that people are gonna want to brag about themselves. So use that to your advantage in the algorithm where you can have people comment and brag about themselves on your post.
Matt Muscat
Yeah, and then take it to the next level, right, like, go deeper on your engagement, I think the way that people are going to really get through a temporary slowdown, and even if it's perceived slowdown in the real estate market, is by going deeper with all their personal relationships, and a comments great, but if they comment something, they took the time to write it, they clearly care about it, send them a direct message, take it off of Facebook, send them a note, like an actual This is crazy, right? Like we're talking about social media. And I'm telling you to take out a pen and paper and write it out or text, but like reach out to them and let them know like I had no idea that you did this that is so cool. Like let's grab coffee soon.
Matt Muscat
Take it to the next level. Because I can almost guarantee that if I have five copies a week, I'm getting one deal. It's almost like a fact, right? For every five meetings I have I get a deal or a couple of referrals. Because now everyone goes back to work. Oh, would you do it? With my buddy Matt? Oh, does he do Oh, he's a realtor. He's actually having a great year, the markets hot, oh my gosh, I'm buying a house? can you refer me to him? It's absolutely crazy. But you'll find a number that works for you. It's a certain number of lunches a certain number of coffees leads to x. So I track the activity, not the end result. And for me, that seems to work really well.
Mike Swenson
One of the things that I talk with admin sometimes and we're kind of talking about how to use social media and and I say, you know, a lot of times you'll see an agent, they want to get their name out there. And so they'll like a bunch of people's posts, or they'll make like one or two word comments on people's posts. And I said, what what we got to talk about is what if instead of just saying Great job are so excited for you what if you asked an engaging question of that person, they're more likely to respond back to you.
Mike Swenson
And so thinking about engagement and going deeper with people, you know, if you find something that I always use, like a birthday party as an example, and let's say a kid had a birthday party, and they were five years old, and it was a party about dinosaurs, you could say, Oh, happy birthday to so and so what's his favorite dinosaur? Right? Like you can ask an engaging question back, that will get them to respond back. And that's how you start a conversation. And so instead of feeling like you have to verbal vomit, ask a question to draw engagement out of the people that you're commenting on their posts.
Matt Muscat
Well, I love that and I think you know, that's one of the one of the best parts about Facebook slash Instagrams algorithm is that it rewards messaging it rewards deeper conversations rather than just like a comment or a like. So if you want to really feed the algorithm juice, you need to put a strategy towards it and do it in a consistent manner right, like all good marketing needs consistency. So what how do you do it? This is this is how you do it. Shoot alphabetize your social media If so just sort your list a dizzy, and message 10 to 15 people a day. Sounds like that doesn't sound like rocket science, but people are well, what do I, what do I say? Here's what you say. You click on their profile, you see what they've posted about recently. And you message them about that topic.
Matt Muscat
So someone just post about their five year olds birthday party, you message them and ask them a question about that, like, oh, my gosh, like my kids about to turn five, like, we're about to do a party like, Did you like this didn't work was your house a disaster afterwards, just trying to get some advice, they're definitely going to respond to you. And it doesn't matter that it's not about real estate, Facebook is giving you credit insurance giving you a credit, because you've got a response. Now, the key here, the best part, that's the magic at the end of the rainbow, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Matt Muscat
My logic is off here is that at some point, that conversation after you talk about whatever the first topic was, they are likely going to ask you a follow up. And that follow up is going to be how are you? How are things going something like that, that is now them, giving you control of the conversation to now guide it wherever you want to go, an open ended question, I now have the power, right.
Matt Muscat
So if you ask me how I'm doing, I'm gonna say, Hey, Mike, I have been fantastic. The real estate market's been hot. So I've been running around like crazy. But it's been a ton of fun, because a lot of our buyers that weren't able to buy before are now getting offers accepted. So now I'm not only mentioning that I'm helping people that it's a great time to buy, but I'm just kind of getting the word out there. And when most people hear about positivity in the real estate market, they're going like, really, I thought the market was terrible. And then you can tell them your side of it. So you get to do so much in that conversation. And then hopefully, you get a meeting at a coffee or beer or something.
Matt Muscat
But at the end of the day, even if that doesn't happen, that person is going to work the next day, having heard something great about the market. And so if someone else does something, they're gonna pair it, what you just told them, and maybe get you that referral. If you're doing it 10 to 15 times a day, how many referrals are getting that week, a couple,
Mike Swenson
like you talked about, you know, being focused on going deeper with your engagement, your response back doesn't have to be about real estate, it can just be about something in your life, you know, you don't have to close them to sell a house after you ask them about their kids dinosaur birthday party isn't. So I think that's where sometimes as agents, we try to make that leap and thinking about, Oh, my gosh, they told me about their kids birthday party, let's try to sell them a house, you don't have to do that just move the relationship forward, move the conversation forward, you don't have to close them on the first Facebook message.
Matt Muscat
It takes a while. Because if you do try that, and it's not natural, like that's why they mentioned real estate in a positive way. That's okay, but don't try to close them. Because then you become like that annoying, like middle level marketing salesperson, like are you trying to sell me? I don't know what the new product is out there. But like, are you trying to sell me cleaning products? Or are you a professional who sells houses and makes 3%
Mike Swenson
I had a guide that I put together for our agents a couple years ago about just kind of to give them ideas of what to post and I said, you know, you can kind of do the the drop a hint without telling them something about real estate, it could be I've seen a lot of folks posts like, Hey, I was on my way to an appointment. And I saw this, or I was on my way to a closing. And I thought of this and what you're saying or observing has nothing to do with real estate. But you're just telling them I was on my way to an appointment, or I was on my way to closing. And so you can tell them you're in real estate without telling them you're in real estate. And so it's it's finding those subtleties as well. Because most agents, you probably look at their page, and it's real estate, real estate, real estate, and
Matt Muscat
things that are cookie cutter and look the same, right? It's, you know, an agent by me, he used to do this all the time, I don't know why he stopped. So maybe someone else out here wants to copy him. But he used to have a series I think serieses or CRI or whatever the word is, they're great, because it takes some of the creativity out and it trains people to look for it if it's good. So he had a series that was things a realtor sees. And it he would be in a house that is showing it's easily crazy. He would take a picture. And as long as it's nothing personal about the buyer or the seller, it's okay.
Matt Muscat
So he'd see like 100 year old furnace like with the crazy octopus look and stuff. Everyone went crazy. You'd see like a rotary dial phone. Hey, when was the last time you saw one of these, like, skip probably worth a lot one day, stuff like that. Or like he saw a house that had like 35 Snake cages in the basement that went pretty viral, you know, figure out something unique about the house. That's what's gonna sell it not the picture of the front of the house that looks so manicured and fake that it's not real.
Mike Swenson
So we talked about marketing a down market, you've given some great advice. Is there anything more that somebody who hasn't been in this type of market can think about?
Matt Muscat
Yeah, you know, a big one right now is you want to get as close to an actual deal as possible in your marketing. So I say you have to market towards getting an actual deal. So one crazy thing that I think most realtors are doing wrong is they should actually be marketing a lot to other realtors and other city states in areas because a referral is a deal. Like the ad just isn't referring you like a random lead that they're prospecting or a random person, they're referring you someone that's moving to your area that wants to buy now.
Matt Muscat
So I've been telling people like, Okay, if you're in XYZ city in the state, what's the city two hours away, call 10 agents a day in that area, and start developing relationships to get their referrals and to give them referrals. People are always happy to like, Hey, I occasionally have buyers in your area. I just wanted to develop a relationship in case I could send you someone would you could we kind of come up with something here. And it's, it's crazy, but it works. I worked with an agent last last month, who taught me this, he got $25 million dollars in referred deals last year from other agents.
Mike Swenson
Wow, he's most agents are fine getting 25 million total. So just in referrals, that's good.
Matt Muscat
He's paying out 30%. So he's getting 25 million times 3%, which is a huge amount of money. And then he pays out 30% of that back to the original agent, which he's still keeping 70% of a lot of money. It's not it's not a bad gig, and he just kind of leveraged the current coaching program, he was in to say, I'm gonna call every other realtor that's in my coaching program. And his original goal was just to pay for his coaching program and make it worth it. Aside from the value he gets, but after this started working, that became his number one marketing technique. I think there's a lot of a lot of people out there who are in a coaching program, or who are in a group of some kind, I think you can really leverage that.
Mike Swenson
But so talk about getting started. So for people that feel like, oh, my gosh, Matt, you just covered all these awesome piece of advice. I feel like I have to do 37 different things. And I see this, this top agent out there that's got a billion followers, I feel so insecure, like how do I how do I move the ball forward? How do I get started.
Matt Muscat
So it starts with time blocking. So social media, for most humans on Earth is a BS activity that you do to waste time when your wife is watching garbage TV. And that's a bad joke. I'm sure. I'm sure most people don't watch garbage TV, but my wife happens to. But she works hard, so she deserves it. But what you need to do is timelog Social media, like if you want it to work for you, it needs to be a consistent activity on your calendar. So first, what I would do is add a half an hour to your calendar every Monday to come up with a plan for the week. And that plan for the week is going to set when you're going to post and what types of categories of things you're going to post about. It sets you on the lookout for what to look out for in the life to take a picture of, to think about deeper into then to then get out there.
Matt Muscat
If you on a Monday time block half an hour on that Monday, that is enough time to come up with at least three posts for that week, as well as come up with an idea of how many story posts you want to do. Or time block another time for the weekend, how much engagement you want to do with other people's posts. That is the key to success, you don't need to figure out the whole strategy right now. But soyou're not going to beat him on social media tomorrow. However, if you make a plan today, and just stick to it for six months, I guarantee you will have results.
Mike Swenson
I talk about time blocking, you know a lot with with my team and, and folks consulting and all that. And I tell them, It's a journey. And it's about getting a little bit better and a little bit better. So even to I think don't beat yourself up if your first week didn't go as expected. Or if you didn't get the response that you thought you'd get. So you don't do week to like, Just give yourself grace, you're trying to build a habit, just like I'm trying to train for a marathon, I'm not going to be able to go out and run a marathon right away. And so if I want to run a marathon in social media, like what's, I'm just gonna go for a walk. And then I'm just gonna run for a little bit and then I'm gonna stop and I'm going to run and walk and run and walk and then I'm going to run for a little longer, you know, so it's that type of mentality to is just get started, commit to some small things and continue to grow, what you're doing to build that following.
Matt Muscat
I love that you got to start somewhere, but time block it, maybe get an accountability partner that can help you and track your activity.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, the accountability is huge. Because if even and it can be your family, it can be a friend, it doesn't have to be another agent in real estate, either. It's just finding somebody that will help hold you accountable, so that you're willing to uphold the things that you said you're going to do. Because otherwise if you just put it on your calendar, and it's like oh, I missed that one. Oh, I missed the next one. You're just not gonna get better. I love that other stuff that you want to make sure that we cover today what what did we miss so far?
Matt Muscat
So these are the these are the big things when it comes to marketing. I would say that the message that I think everyone needs to be getting right now is to actually schedule time to personally reach out to all of your best contacts and it's to give them a market update. Because if you don't give them the update, they're going to find it on the internet. And it's not going to be nice. If you simply time block an hour a day which most of us to be truthful right now we have aside from whatever we have going on with our kids time blocking our day reaching out to some people to say hey, it's John was real to me realtor. Just want to give you a quick update on the market.
Matt Muscat
Give me a call back when you Have 10 seconds, I'm gonna walk you through some homes that sold in your area. And what this means for you some some version of that make it more your style, make it more conversational, if you know them, most people will call you back, and you will have a super meaningful conversation. That is the number one task that we could all be doing right now. Whether that starts on as a call starts on Facebook, on Instagram, social media, it doesn't matter, I recommend a phone call, see where that takes you, you will have good results. If you want more advice. I'm podcasts called the neighborhood realtor.
Matt Muscat
It was called marketing on the markets, we just rebranded but very similar types of topics. We interview top producers every week, just like you do. And we go through what's working. So what's working changes every week based on the market and based on based on you. So check, check the podcast out. And then I have a book on Amazon called tag the tangible action guide for real estate marketing. Every chapter is two pages. So it fits the attention span of most salespeople. And every chapter is a specific thing you can do right now to get a deal. So I think that can be a really, really easy guide and way to start selling.
Mike Swenson
Awesome, Matt. Well, thanks so much for coming on. I mean, there's so many great nuggets here. And yeah, I would just encourage folks listening to this, take down a couple notes of things that you're going to implement here. Because it's great to listen to this podcast, it's great to get some great advice and then not do anything with it. So if the time blocking is a thing you need to implement, implement time blocking.
Mike Swenson
If you're doing good at time blocking, pick another piece of something that Matt shared here and take action on it. Because in these down markets, you have to do more, it might take more lead generation and social media and marketing is lead generation. So it might take a little bit more effort. But take some nuggets here put them into action to help your business grow. So thank you, Matt, for coming on. Appreciate it all that you share and yeah, check out the book, check out the podcast. Congrats on future success.
