Lane Kawaoka: 6,000 Units with Simple Passive Cashflow
LISTEN TO FULL EPISODE ON:
Study hard, get a good job, contribute to your 401k and retire happy! Have you heard that one before? Lane did too. He worked as a construction engineer and realized this was not the path for him, especially after watching his parents plans not work out with their 401k and the stock market. He quit his job and found happiness at a lower paying job and working on his real estate portfolio. He grew to 11 rentals back in 2015 and has now directed his focus to larger holdings, and has 6,000 units while spending his time in Honolulu, Hawaii. Listen and learn how Lane has grown his passive income and how you can too!
In this episode, hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:
- Lane started learning about real estate and got into buying properties from 11 units to 6000 units.
- Hist first few properties were in Seattle as he happens to live there, and in order for him to find more property to buy, he went straight to turnkey providers.
- Lane discussed the class tenant which are Class A, Class B and Class C.
- In order for him to overcome broke guys, he paid lot of conferences and paid to get into a lot of masterminds.
- He started his podcast back in 2016. At the time, he was still buying rental properties and he was just barely accredited investor at that point.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro and overview on Lane ‘s career
03:39 Talking about Lane’s progression from 11 units to 6000 units.
10:19 Elaborating his properties and how he finds the property and people to help him.
11:15 Discussion about Class A, Class B and Class C.
23:18 Talking about passive cash flow calm and how people can find him.
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Full transcript here:
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the REL freedom podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.
Mike Swenson
All right, welcome everybody to the real freedom podcast. And today I am so excited to share with you, we've got Lane Kawaoka here, and lanes gonna share. So his background actually was engineering. So you know, we think about the people that were raised, you know, get a good education, get a good job, invest in your 401k. And you're going to have enough money to retire. And so Lane is here to kind of share how his path is gone outside of that, you know, thinking about your your parents, and that's the path that they took. But But now you're investing full time. You've got simple passive cash flow, calm. You've got your podcast, a couple of awesome YouTube channels, and over 6000 units right now that you're investing in. So welcome, Leanne. So excited to have you here. And if you just want to share a little bit more about your story.
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah. So yeah, exactly what you said I, I call it the linear path, we're all kind of brainwashed to invest in your 401k by a hostile event, we're gonna GOP do the 401k stuff. I learned pretty early on that, like I bought a rental pretty early. And I got that taste of cash flow, right that most of the revenue, after expenses, repairs property management. And I was like, wow, if I keep doing this, I'll be able to quit my day job fire my boss. So I got tried to get educated on a lot more start to buy properties that were better rented value ratios, started investing in Seattle, but then realize, you know, sophisticated investors invest in more places like the Midwest like Arizona, Texas, Alabama, Florida, places like that, that you wouldn't think otherwise. And yeah, Ron started in 2009. Around 2015, I had 11 rentals. And that was kind of what I kind of transitioned more as a credit investor to private placements at syndications.
Mike Swenson
Well, and it's interesting, because you know, talking about talking about, you know, getting a good job, invest in your 401k. You know, I was an entrepreneurship major in college, and I remember, you know, taking classes and talking with some of my classmates about investing in stocks. And I remember, you know, thinking about how much money could I put into my 401k, I made a spreadsheet of, you know, if I hit this rate of return, and I continue to contribute this much, here's how much money I'll have, at the end of, you know, of my retirement or when I get my start of retirement. And it's just so interesting to see how, you know, there's so many people that are led to believe that and you think about it, the returns that you can get in real estate are phenomenal compared to that.
Mike Swenson
And, you know, I think a lot of the myths in the market are people think like, oh, the real estate market is gonna crash. And the reality is, the stock market can crash too. So if you want to just share a little bit about you know, maybe how your portfolio has grown from 11 units, obviously, you've you've done syndications and how that's grown, but just show people kind of that path of how one step leads to the next step. Because I think, you know, when they hear 6000 units, it's just like, Oh, I'm never gonna be able to do that. But kind of walk us through that, that progression and how you go from one unit to 11 units to 6000 units.
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, I mean, exactly, to your point, right, like this stuff is like the 401k stuff just doesn't work. It's just all the crap that they want you to invest in, because that's how these Wall Street companies make you make a whole lot of money to do hidden fees. So I mean, the hardest one is your first rental property. And, you know, you find something that cash flows on a monthly basis. So not only does it pay the debt service and interest in taxes, but also the repairs is about 10% a month, the vacancy property management, if people want to go download my analyzer, the spreadsheet that kind of breaks this all down, they can go to passive cash flow, calm slash analyzer. And, you know, you really start to wrap your head around that right.
Lane Kawaoka
After, you know, you kind of do the quick and dirty 1% or to value ratio, where you take them up the rents divided by the purchase price, you know, you got to really dig into the numbers, but it's not rocket science. And then, like you said, like everybody kind of freaks out that aren't really sophisticated like they watch this YouTube and like, Oh my god, that the markets gonna crash. Well, you know, like the way we do things, we're passive real estate investors buy for cash flow. So like all those suckers in 2008, they were buying houses, they were buying properties based on appreciation. And they and it wasn't a pure fact that they were hiding. Average. But if the property didn't cash on a monthly basis to pay the debt service. So what we do is we invest properties with a healthy amount of buffer. So should anything happen in the economy? You know, we just drop our rents and we see in business and what's great about us is like, we could stay in business, keep renting out a property still cashflow, put off the assets, and then all these other suckers, fending for appreciation, the house flippers accelera, you know, kind of buy up shop. After these, there's blood in the streets.
Mike Swenson
So I know there's people out there that are saying, you know, as they're listening this like, well, how can I find a property that passion that cash flows correctly? They're just not out there? It's too tough. I can't find one. What would you say to those people? Or how would you encourage them to to find the right properties? Or to kind of help them to know where to start?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty easy, in my opinion. I mean, like, We're not trying to find diamonds in the rough properties. A lot of my clients are passive investors, they're hired network, they're successful business owners, they make multiple, six figures, they already have money, like all these tricks and games that wholesalers play, we don't do any of that, right? Because our time is more valuable than screwing around with that stuff. So a lot of times we're buying retail, turnkey ready rentals, right. And you can google turnkey rentals. I mean, go to my website, there's a whole turnkey rental guide. I think it's called Casa casters.com. Slash turnkey. And you can go read all about it, you basically go buy a freshening rehab property, you're paying a little bit extra. But if it cash flows on a monthly basis, who cares, right? It's that's still better than what you're getting in the stock market stuff. And then you just kind of go above from there. And then what's cool about this is, I mean, most people do it the wrong way, right?
Lane Kawaoka
There's this accumulation theory with the whole 401k traditional wealth building where you build up to the $4 million of money and live off the proceeds. But the problem there is you're eating way at the pile of cash, benching pile of cash goes away, and you're trying to time it so that when you die, you don't have you still have something. Yeah, but the, what you want to be doing in that situation is, you know, beginning with the end in mind, when you get to that stage, you want cash flow. So begin with that strategy now and create cash flow streams today, all these little mini rentals, or if you're an accredited investor syndications and private placements, that kick off this cash flow today. And what's cool for especially for most of my clients that are still working, they don't need to eat these cash flow streams yet.
Lane Kawaoka
So the cash flow streams, create more cash flow sheets, so whether you want to call it cash flow babies, or mini pension funds, I mean, it just keeps steam moments eroding. I mean, it took me a long time to buy my first two or three rental properties. And then around 2011, you know, I was saving maybe 50 $100,000 a year, I think that was my big advantage. It's not like I made, you know, multiple, six figures, I was maybe making 120 grand my best year, but I was super frugal, and putting all that money into investment properties. But around the time, I had 11 properties in 2015, I felt the pinch. I mean, I had property management all the time. I don't know how to do a fiction or these. I don't know how to fix toilets, right? But so you hire professionals to do all this stuff. But for 11 rentals, that a few $100, a cash flow each, you have maybe $3,000, a cash flow a month, like, which is awesome.
Lane Kawaoka
But I don't know what American family can survive of that most of my clients, they talk about $10,000 possible, but that's kind of like the baseline. And to get that you're going to need 30 rental properties. To do that. And with 11 rentals, I had maybe an eviction or two every month, every, every year, some kind of big issue that happened every quarter, like a tree fall on the house or like flood in a basement or something like that. Not a problem, right? But when you have 30 rentals, multiply the exception rate by three. And now you're talking about eviction, every month, some kind of big catastrophe almost every few weeks. And that was where I started to search for the next thing, got around other high paid doctors, lawyers, engineers, and found that they were investing in private placements as a passive investor.
Mike Swenson
Well, and I think that's when you said, you know, think about the beginning with the end in mind, right? You know, is my goal to go fix all the toilets, right? There's always the as the landlord, it's the leaky toilet at 2am. Right? So is my plan to do that? Well, no, then you find good people that can help that you can use to leverage your time, and eventually it's going to leverage your income and it's going to help you to grow faster. So I think you know, a lot of times people think they have to do every single thing on that first property. And you spend so much time doing that stuff that you don't get to focus on the next property in the next property. So you Now when you got started, were you were you investing in properties in Hawaii? Or you? Were you already looking in other states kind of at the beginning there?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, I've been I my first few properties were in Seattle because I happen to live there, you know, even Seattle, you don't want to invest there because the rent to value ratios are horrible, just like California, Portland, New York, Boston, like, you just don't invest in these primary markets, you got to look for these more secondary tertiary markets, like a Birmingham, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Kansas City, places like that, where the rent to value ratios work out.
Mike Swenson
So then looking in other states, how, how did you go about finding the properties and then finding people to help you with buying the properties?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, so you can go about this two ways you can go after straight turnkey provider. Yep, we can help you kind of, you know, you're overpaying a little bit by doing it that way, which puts us fine, you know, they hook you up with a property manager, or you can kind of go to a broker and kind of find out a team that they would recommend. And that's how you find your property manager. The property manager is the most important part of this whole thing, finding one. But this is where it's like your network is your net worth. Find other pure passive investors that's we have our community of other passive investors to kind of leverage off of, and don't work with this randos off the internet. That's or certainly don't go after like the big brokerages like century 21, Keller, Williams, etc. Because you're just working with the dude that can sell houses, you're looking for, like a good property manager that, that can handle Class B and C tenants.
Mike Swenson
So let's talk about let's talk about the class tenants a little bit because I know that's something for a newer investor, you know, you've got a B, C neighborhoods and tenants so so talk through that for somebody who doesn't really know what what's Class A Class B, Class C?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, I know, we can break it down. We talked about in terms of tenant class and an asset class. So the asset classes, that's a simpler one, like the newer properties, those are Class A, once you get around 1990s, the 1970s, that's for a class B asset and the 1960s in orders Class C, and then D and F. I mean, that's just bullcrap. You know, at that point. And, you know, I mean, there's no hard and fast rule with this stuff, especially with the tenant profile class, right? Or the neighborhood quality. So like eight classes, your cool yuppie areas, right? You know, where a young gal can go running in the evening time, we're in the class sphere, that's, that's something happening. You know, you and I would have bat hanging out in a class B, area, you know, unless you're rolling with a bunch of friends, right? Class C, we wouldn't really want to be there during the daytime. But you know, most people are like, what those those are where you get the best returns, right?
Lane Kawaoka
The Class D and F. But you that's also accomplished with the most headaches. So like, that's where like, sweet spot is kind of in the middle that B class area, there's not going to be in the best school districts is not going to be the safe safest of areas, but at least you're not going to have like homicide, or those kinds of extremely violent crimes in that area. They get this is the sweet spot. And this is I think, what scares away a lot of investors, right? Like most people think of investing in sexy luxury type of stuff. But the reason why we invest the P class stuff is it's the lower middle class of America, that's where the most demand is for this type of stuff. And in recessions, it's the a class people lose their jobs and cascade down to the B's and the C's, B's and C's. And that's why we kind of like to stay positioned here. Because we're hedged against any type of bad economic times.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Well, and I think a good point, a good thing to remember too, is Yeah, it may not be a neighborhood that that you're planning on living in. And yet at the same time, there's there's lots of people that do enjoy living there and need to live there. And so I think that's the difference to thinking about a mindset of an investor versus a homeowner is you do have to separate yourself, you know, like, Oh, that's not a neighborhood that I would like to live in. Well, that's okay. You're not living in that neighborhood, your tenants living in that neighborhood. So and yeah, each person's a little bit different. You may enjoy a certain neighborhood somebody else may not enjoy that neighborhood. So you're just finding properties that are a good fit for you and a good fit for what your goals are. And what you want to do, right?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, yeah, I mean, most of our clients you know, they live in California or Hawaii or some high priced area A lot of times I mean, this is just for me personally, like it's a culture shock. First time I went to Birmingham, Alabama, I was like, Are you serious? Like, this is this is crazy. He buy properties for $100,000 that actually decent is crazy. And like that's that's how most of America lives in these types of Housing where they pay 1000 bucks a month for rent, we're the crazy ones that pay, you know, 400 $600,000 plus for starter homes out there. And, you know, I mean, if if an investor's kind of like, well I'm not comfortable doing it well, man just go invest in your 401k stuff we know what's going to happen there, you know, just like working at your day job, you get old and die. And but this is you know, financial independence. So people who get out of their comfort zone and do this smartly and and when you're buying rentals, you should get a property manager, you don't really need to go to the property yourself. And you know, if you're really, really, really that easy, and you have the network for it, and that's where you go to syndications and private placements. So you know, you just rely on the asset manager, the operator to kind of deal with all this stuff.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, let's talk for a second. So about syndication, private placement. What is that for the person that doesn't know? And how do you find people that do that so you can get connected?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, I mean, so you can invest as a non credit investor into both deals, the problem is, you're probably not in the network, or of the people who are doing the deals. So I mean, this is all kind of comes down to where you are in the journey if your net worth is under a quarter million and you don't have any money. You gotta get your finances right guys first, right? This is real estate investing, you don't have money to invest, you can't real estate, this bill, flip some houses, go wholesale, some property to school, play real estate agent and make some money, right, or go to an engineering job or go play doctor, you got to make money to this first and then you know what I would recommend people starting out who are lower than that work skills go buy a handful of rentals. First.
Lane Kawaoka
What for most of the investors that we work with are accredited investors, they don't have the time to be dealing with a property manager broker or some small property where they make a couple 100 bucks a cash flow every month, that's nothing to them. And that's where investing in private placements and syndications come into play where a group of investors would pull their money together. And the way it kind of works is the analogy is kind of like it's an airplane where the general partners or the cockpit, the general partners are the ones who find the deal with the lending the debt in their name, they operate it, they pay up distributions, they kind of do everything, where the passive investors come in the backroom coach, they invest anywhere from, like 25,000 to $250,000 minimum, and they sit back a cash, your checks, and they relax. They don't do anything. The you know, it's called private placements for visa spotting sensitive private and you know, finding good reputable people to work with is really difficult. I mean, I've, I've invested with a couple of bad folks in the past. And, you know, the only way to really mitigate that is to build relationships with other passive investors first, so you can figure out who are the people that they're investing in? Well, stay away from
Mike Swenson
So for somebody that Okay, now I've accumulated, let's just say, $250,000. You're starting to network with network with other people. I assume you're just asking for referrals, like okay, what, what syndicates are you investing in, and then to, like you said, part of it is also matching the money. So some might say, you know, hey, $25,000 is the minimum that it takes to be a part of this one summit might be $100,000. So you kind of have to find the match of the amount of money that you have to invest with the syndicate that accepts that chunk of money, I guess.
Lane Kawaoka
And for the most part, if somebody is willing to take less than 50 G's from you, I would run away because they're probably really desperate for cash in their view, right. And this is what makes it extremely hard. Everybody does a podcast today to raise capital, everybody's got like a fake book they have, it's really hard to determine who's legit, like who's a large institution that has been doing this for a decade, who's done 2030 deals and boost, just took a boot camp the other weekend. And it was on their first, second, third, fourth, fifth deal, it's extremely hard to figure this out. This is why I always say, Don't waste your time talking to syndicator sponsors will talk to other pure passive investors actually investing in this stuff. And they are credited investors.
Lane Kawaoka
So a lot of this has to do with the people that you're hanging out with. If you're going to the local reo, it's probably the wrong place to be going because most of those guys are broke. They're just trying to flip houses and wholesale houses. Again, you're looking for people that have a net worth a million dollars or greater investing in this type of stuff. And all those guys value their privacy, and they already got their network so it's it's difficult, right? Like a lot of the free Facebook forums and free free forums out there. They're free for a reason because they tracked the broke guys, right? So a lot of once you find your kind of circle of high net worth people stay close to them, but it's gonna take most people a few years to really find your tribe.
Mike Swenson
And how did that work for you personally?
Lane Kawaoka
I paid for a lot of conferences and paid to get into a lot of masterminds. And then you just just kind of network with people and you figure out you add value to each other. It's hard. I mean, that's this is why I created this simple passive cash flow like group, right? Because there's not many groups out there that are strictly pure passive investors.
Mike Swenson
Right? Well, I think you touched on a good point of that you paid, right? Free groups are fantastic. There's there's certainly a place for that. But at the same time, yeah, it's it's who you associate with and you're probably going to have to think about opening up your checkbook a little bit, or I guess checkbook term.
Lane Kawaoka
But credit card, right?
Mike Swenson
yeah, you're gonna, yeah, you're gonna have to spend a little bit of money to make more money. And it's an investment too, right? Like, if I went to go get my MBA in some other area, it's going to cost me money, right? And it's going to cost me maybe upwards of $100,000 Plus, to get an NBA so why wouldn't I spend money to associate myself with top people in real estate investment investing to help me make more money. So it's that same mindset, you're paying for education you're paying for? Who you're associating with? And they have great knowledge, right? So it's, it's money well spent, but it's finding the right people, because yeah, you certainly could spend money in the wrong places, and it's not going to get you where you want to go.
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, and here's kind of the pro tip, I mean, like, once your net worth goes over half a billion, this is very important, your network is your network, as they say, but if you're under that threshold, you know, quarter million, half a million, go out and make some money, because like the groups that you're gonna have access to when you're broke, I call everybody broke was under a million dollars. By the way, I don't want to offend anybody, but that's what I do. Because in the grand scheme of things, you don't have a million dollars you don't really have much and you're kind of just you're in the stages, incubation stage stage one, where you got to go buy rental properties, you got to do what other people have done. And this is the hardest part unfortunately, but you're not going to have access to people who are hired at work.
Lane Kawaoka
And the only groups that you're going to have access to are just other people kind of in your shoes that are kind of in the same scarcity mentality mindset where everybody's climb climbing on top of each other, you meet other people yeah, there might be motivation buddies, but they're not gonna really be the people that's going to help you get that person they're going to get you to that next level. And that's why I see too often especially real estate agents when they're getting started they just waste a lot of freaking time going to all these networking events like Why the hell would you want to network with other agents at this scale right like spend your time cold calling for some you know, that's the kind of stuff you have to do in the beginning and then once you start to get past that threshold, some half a million dollar network in my opinion, that's when I think you start to pay to play
Mike Swenson
so why don't you share with us because I know we're getting close here on time. Talk a little bit more about simple passive cash flow calm talk about you know some of the lessons that you share with people and you know what, what can people learn from you? or How can they connect with you to kind of get started on this journey or kind of make that next step?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, so I started the podcast back in 2016. At the time I was still buying rental properties I think I was just barely accredited investor at that point. Um, and all my friends would ask me well how you buying these properties remotely? So a lot of the first dozen or so podcasts are all about like tactical like how do you buy rental properties because there's all this garbage out there right all these gurus teaching stuff and then they're trying to trick people who don't have money to spend 20,000 $40,000 per program and I thought that was kind of nonsense so I was like Well here it is, here's all your for free like a lot of stuff on the websites for free especially for new people getting started but then you know as I was kind of going through a transformation as a credit investor I started to realize that investing wasn't really that important it got you the tax these passive activity losses to play these different games that are taxes but the way the wealthy do it once you get to net worth million dollars or more about taxes, legal protection, infinite banking and you pulling that strategy together,
Lane Kawaoka
and that's really how you take it to the next four to $5 million level and that's a lot what I kind of talk about today on the podcasts, you know, breaking basically breaking down the secrets of the wealthy and then what I realize is the stuff that the wealthy do very different than what the average people are taught. Right like don't do 401 K's don't do any retirement plans. I don't know why. I was talking to a family office friend. And then he was like, Dude, what is this like qualified retirement plans people got like, I don't know if that's what like broke guys. They people try and sell this stuff, the broke guys his retirement accounts. Like it doesn't make any sense or Roth IRAs, stuff like that. That's that's maybe what the Peter TEALS are doing because they're doing the things nefariously But like that's not what really like wealthy people do, like they invest in real estate, that's tax free anyway, they pay the taxes and stuff now to get it out of that broken system. So that's that's kind of simple, passive cash flow calm is all about, of course, the podcasts associated with it.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. And I would encourage folks to, I mean, you've got a lot of great information on your YouTube channel that people can see. And so obviously, you're very sophisticated in your approach, and you've been at this a long time. And for people just getting started, just spend some time on the YouTube channel, you've got some great educational pieces, listen to the podcast, and really start to take those steps. But I love what you said, and with the mindset of begin with the end in mind, because, yeah, do you want to be the person that you know follows the 4% rule where you're just taking out 4% of your 401k and hope that you don't outlive outlive your retirement plan? Or do you want to be the person that builds income that consistently has that coming in? Because when you're retired, wouldn't it be nice to have more and more income coming in? versus just hoping Hey, I hope I don't outlive all this money that I've saved, that I've been spending the last 40 years working on?
Lane Kawaoka
Yeah, I mean, I'd say like if people are accredited investors should be email lane at simple passive cash flow calm, check out the info page, simple passive cash flow.com slash syndication. But if you guys are just getting started, you guys got to pick up rental properties, you guys can get access to my free remote rental ecourse by texting word remote 23146651767. So that's kind of my way to kind of get back guys gotta get on it, you know, stop flipping houses, buying and selling houses, that's more active stuff, you got to get more passive.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, yeah, and you're not gonna get to 6000 unless you start. So for those people that are just thinking, gosh, I just can't, I just don't know where to start. I just don't know what to do with the kids as you got to get in it. And you're gonna learn as you go see you at some point, you've got to make the jump in to be able to get to 6000 units, but it all starts with one and then in your case, you got to 11 and then that hockey stick growth happens after that. Well, thank you so much lane for coming on. Really appreciate you sharing simple passive cash flow calm, I know we're gonna have that on the screen, we're gonna have that in the show notes as well. So reach out to Lane and get educated and we'd love to hear when the person that hears this gets to 6000 units down the road. So thanks so much for sharing lane. You're obviously just a wealth of information. And we appreciate it to having you on.
Lane Kawaoka
Thanks Mike
