Ken & Rachael Wick: From Teachers To 225+ Units

LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE ON:

Having worked as teachers for years, Ken and Rachael Wick first purchased a triplex and a duplex 20 years ago as a way to supplement their education salaries. Being educators, they understood the value of growing and educating themselves on their real estate investing journey, essentially getting their "2nd Master's Degrees". They have also focused on partnering with others further down the road to learn from them until they felt comfortable doing larger deals themselves. Fast forward to today, and Ken and Rachael own over 225 units in 3 states. They have also leveraged the power of cost segregation studies to bring additional cashflow into their properties through accelerated depreciation. What is equally important to their success is their desire to provide great quality housing to their tenants, their hearts to give back through their partnership with World Vision and their Doors2Donate Program, and spending time with their 6 children.

In this episode hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:

• How Ken and Rachael learned the ins and outs of how to do multifamily investing and utilizing their backgrounds as educators to learn a lot about the industry
• Their original goals was to build for their kid's future by supplementing the educational salaries with rental properties
• How they bought a 48-unit complex with $0 out of their pocket
• How they honed in on some of their investing criteria, such as picking properties located near airports, having pitched-roofs vs flat roofs, etc
  
• The program that helped them with learning creative financing 
  
• The importance of having adequate reserves in a syndication
  
• How they have utilized cost segregation studies to reduce their taxes and put more cashflow into their business

Timestamps:

0:00 - Intro To Ken And Rachael's Career
1:47 - Ken & Rachael's Background Before Real Estate
6:03 - Managing Large Multifamily
13:09 - Structuring Deals & Finding Private Money
18:45 - Scaling Up To Syndications
21:33 - General Partnerships
22:28 - Limited Partnerships
25:53 - Impact Of Cost Segregation To Investors
31:10 - What Real Estate Has Meant To Them
34:52 - How To Find Ken and Rachael

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Minnesota Real Estate

Read the full transcript here:

Mike Swenson
Welcome to The REL Freedom Podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some REL freedom together.

Mike Swenson
Hello, everybody, welcome to another episode of The REL Freedom Show where we talk about building time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate specifically, everybody has a different background that they come from. And so a lot of people have come from the education background and made successful real estate investors because they're willing to learn they're willing to apply that knowledge. And then they also have a teacher's heart to help others. So that's the guests that we have today. We've got Ken and Rachael wick here, quick background about them. I will say Minnesota natives, we also want to plug other people in Minnesota 50 plus years combined of education experience between both of you having Master's of educational technology degrees. And so you've served in Minnesota schools for a long time. And we'll talk more about that real estate background investing in multifamily single family properties and also real estate syndications, which we'll discuss there, you also give back and so you partnered with World Vision with their doors to donate programme, sponsoring children for every dollar that you own, which is awesome. We'd love to chat a little bit more about that. And you have six kids, so you're busy being in their lives as well. And so welcome to the show. We're so excited to have you.

Ken Wick
Oh, we're grateful to be here, Mike. And thank you. Some good value today.

Mike Swenson
Obviously, I gave the cliffnotes version, but just talk about your background, being exposed to real estate diving deeper into real estate. And we'll go from there.

Ken Wick
Sure. Thanks for the opportunity. So we are educators. I spent 30 years in public education as a social studies teacher and computer teacher. I direct your verse 11 years, as you mentioned, we both have degrees in information technology. He was an art teacher in case of settings for 25 years. Oh, actually, it's Oh, it's about 55. Totally a lot. It's like a whole lifetime of teaching. So we during the time in our little 2000s, that's when we first got into residential rental real estate. We had we've had rental property since 2003 2004. Was in Minnesota in your hometown. Cato?

Raechel Wick
Yeah, we we thought we would kind of supplement our educational salaries with some rental properties, and hopefully, you know, kind of build that up. And so by the time the kids got college age, we would have something kind of built for them. So that's where that began. Let's see, we started with a triplex and a duplex. And for those of you that might be older and listening, the Carlton sheets educational programme on creative financing was the intro into our creative financing and picking up properties at either a discount, or using creative techniques, let's say to do that, and and that started off. I think I was 33 when we started. Yeah, we picked up a triplex and a duplex all in one summer. And then do a lot of renovating. We learned the ins and outs.

Mike Swenson
So you did that what you use finance one through creative financing for both of those properties.

Raechel Wick
Yeah, and since then, we've done several more, we actually almost always and this is just a tip to your viewers. Anything you go to purchase, whether it's your personal home or rental real estate, ask if they can do a seller carry back, I think the last five properties we've gotten a seller carry back. So typically you have to go in and put down 20% Or somewhere around that, at the time. That's what it was. And every property each owner, you're willing to give a little bit more, if you don't undercut you're willing to give a little bit more and set the right terms, you actually can pay less per month plus pay less upfront. And that's what we did. So each seller did a 10% carry back, we made small payments per month for a set amount of time, usually a three year period. And then we had a balloon and by then you've usually renovated the property, you've up the value, you're ready to refinance or you're ready to do it, or payout.

Mike Swenson
Yeah, and I know I mean in the last particularly year to 12 to 18 months with interest rates going up. I know that seller financing and creative financing has been a little bit more of a buzz than it was previously back when rates were 2% and 3%. And so at the same time there's a there's a tonne of opportunity there. And what I love in those creative finance conversations is you're trying to create a win win, you know Something that works for you something that works for them. And you don't necessarily always have to involve a bank in the process or not for the entire part of that, that piece. And so that's a great way for people to get started, it takes some work to find the right sellers out there and to find the right deal.

Raechel Wick
Just recently, in the last four months, we were working on a 48 unit portfolio. And that owner was willing to entertain that as well. So it doesn't just have to be the small properties. It's the big ones too. So you just have to, this is a mindset shift, becoming an investor's entire mindset shift. You have to believe all things are possible. And then you have to ask for all things possible. And let people say, No, that's okay. And don't take it as rejection. It's because sometimes somebody's gonna say yes, and you're gonna be surprised, then you're gonna be able to do something you couldn't do on your own.

Mike Swenson
So just so we get a little bit more context, so you've got the triplex. You mentioned the 48 unit. What other states are you invested in the 48 unit that's in Iowa? Is that correct?

Ken Wick
Yeah. We had a triplex duplex in a single family house here in 2000. I exited education in 2006 remodelling and our triplex is a second term remodelling. I happen to hear other radio Hey, if you learn how to do multi family syndications, come to this meeting up and let me introduce you to how to do that. So I was teaching and I said, Hey, honey, do you want to go to this meeting? And she said, Sure. So we headed to this meeting. To make a long story short, we ended up taking the training company out of Boston, Massachusetts that taught us how all the ins and outs of how to do multifamily, underwriting syndicating gather investors managing multifamily properties, and when I say they're large multifamily, anything was greater is considered commercial property. So we look at five units. We looked at the Moines Iowa, we met some partners draining programme conducted an invest in three properties in Las Vegas. That's how we got our family.

Raechel Wick
So we have some properties in Las Vegas, Iowa, Minnesota.

Ken Wick
In 2019 2020, we got involved in those properties in Las Vegas in 2021, we put a syndication are, it's it's ramped up to eight units total. area,

Raechel Wick
and then we're going to be closing hopefully in two weeks, on another 48 unit.

Mike Swenson
Awesome, congratulations, you know, I just gotta go to was gonna quick chime in when he talked about, you know, hearing the seminar, because a lot of people, you know, hear commercial, see ads for different seminars and whatnot. And going back to mindset, you talked about, you know, being open, believing in all things. And I know you're a lot of people their first gut response, when they hear something like that is oh, they're trying to get me, right. They're trying to sell me something which they are. And at the same time, education, investing in education. Now here I am talking to two educators about the power of investing in education, you can go to those seminars, and learn some great information. And maybe that one's not the fit for you. Maybe there's other ones out there. And I totally get the coaching programme, the mentoring programme, there's a lot of bad eggs out there. And yet at the same time, there's a lot of good eggs too. And so it might take a little bit of time to investigate and find the right people that you want to align with. But I know for me, we've spent a lot of money on education. Over the last two years, as I've worked more and more with investors, I've learned a lot about different things. There's still a tonne that I have yet to learn. But it's being willing, at least at first glance, to be open to the idea of investing in an education or pursuing relationships where there's other educational opportunities to learn and grow to decide what's going to be that right path for you or the right next step for you.

Raechel Wick
We cannot say enough about being educated in large multifamily, there is so much to learn. We count it as a second master's degree for us both. So people are not just going to pick this up in a couple of months, there is a lot to learn. And once you learn about acquiring a property, then you have to operate it and you have to do it well especially if you have investors, you have an obligation to take care of their needs the residents needs and then the property so there's just a lot to learn and we cannot stress enough. Please do take. Don't go into this blindly and just pick up a property and then think you're going to operate it like a regular single family. Home, it's just not the same.

Ken Wick
We do your current podcast that was aiming, we do encourage people to take a formal education, as we encounter people who say, Well, I can just pick this up on YouTube or

Mike Swenson
everything's on YouTube, I could just learn it all myself, right?

Ken Wick
If you you know, if you like the shack and approach like stuff last that yeah, million pieces at a time, that that's your thing. But if a more start to finish a to z programme that makes sense of how to do everything, you recommend getting an education because that's, that's what we're doing. We were listening to podcasts watching you do videos, and there is a lot of good information out there. Unless you have somebody that can string it all together, where it makes sense. It's really, in my opinion, it's really difficult to add direction.

Raechel Wick
And honestly, we were at the point, we literally were working on our triplex and across the street, an eight Plex got built up. And we're like, man, if we could just pick up an eight Plex like that, whoa, you know, like, how could we ever get the money and yadda yadda yadda. And then we go and take these courses, and they're like, don't buy anything under 100 100 units? And we're like, no, no, sure enough, we have bought in a 48 unit complex with $0 out of our pocket, it is possible. However, there's a lot to learn, you got to do it right. And it can, it can fail quickly. So you have to be careful. You know, the rewards are great, but there's also things move quicker. There's a lot more expenses in a large multifamily. So you really have to balance your operations.

Mike Swenson
And when you have some lean months, you have to have the capital to be able to pull from if you need to. So I know a lot of investors that I talked to you know, this last winter in Minnesota was not a great winter, there was a lot of snow. People didn't necessarily plan for that snow ploughing budget to go through the roof. I mean, it was what like the third largest snowfall total ever in Minnesota's history. Well, guess what, somebody's got to shovel that snow and the snow plough people aren't gonna be like, Hey, I'm sorry that you didn't budget for this. So it's planning for rainy days like that. The other thing I was going to mention is, you know, talking about being responsible for other people's money, because sometimes I hear from people like, oh, just show me how to, you know, get get private funding, how to get money from other people. And I think so many times the mindsets incorrect about that, I'm not necessarily look, now, if it's a bank, it's a different story, right? You know, but when you're looking for people that are investors that are giving you their hard earned money, or their private equity, it's, it's a responsibility conversation, I'm being a steward of your money, I'm being responsible to take it do something great with it, so that you want to continue to allow me to use that. And so I kind of want to challenge the notion that a lot of people have is just teaching me how to get people's money, how to get private money, versus being a being responsible for it and being a good steward of that. So talk about that as you guys go, in terms of structuring your deals and finding private money.

Ken Wick
So really a lot of this backtracks into, you're looking at a property when it comes up for sale. How do you do diligence? How do you check things like what's rent roll? What are the rents the comparables in the area? Show me that a T two hour show me the expenses in the income? How can I put that into our underwriting? Or how can we plug that into our underwriting and make deal makes sense? Is there room to increase rents? There are improvements that can be made. Can we force the appreciation on the property by doing innovations? All those things come into play? Before you ever ask anybody for money? Because at the point that you have your deal, analyse them? Yes. Oh, by the way, it doesn't make sense. Okay. And it looks like a property and you've done the underwriting due diligence. At that point, you start to become the teacher again, you start to talk to people and say, hey, you know, I got a property, here's what the numbers look like, I can project this percent return for you if you invest this amount of money. Let me tell you how this works. It's a syndication and people come into the syndication the money, and he goes, EPs and the people and we really, Rachel is a we really spend approximately one hour a minimum of one hour per investor during teach explaining, right?

Raechel Wick
Yep. We're very particular about the properties that we pick. Because number one, we we try and stay in the secondary markets of large metros, we start there. If we have an investor from California, oftentimes they're they just fly over Iowa. Like if I was our main market, they don't Don't understand much about Iowa. They all think that there's cornfields, right, cornfields. So it's up to us to make sure they understand why it's such a great Midwest location. And we're probably not going to go find smaller towns to do that. And we're just going to find suburbs of the metro or in the metro, or somewhere near an airport, we like to find places near airport, so investors can fly in, see the property. I mean, who doesn't want to see a property, they're a part of, you know, it's, it's a really enriching experience when you get to take someone on site. But we are pretty particular, you know, pitched roofs, the whole snow situation, like you're saying, we'd like to invest in the Midwest. So we make sure typically, we find roofs that are pitched, so the snow will slide off of them, instead of pulling on a flat roof. You know, age wise, we try and make sure that we are, we've changed this just recently, a little bit, but typically, we're looking in the 80s to 90s. Properties. Yep, and newer, and we like garden style, because people love community. You know, we we purchased one complex, just because it had a beautiful middle of grassy area that people could come together. Building community within the residence is one of our big goals as well, well. And

Mike Swenson
what I love about everybody has their own kind of niche is that's the cool part about real estate. And so when you're looking to invest with people, it's finding people that align with that, I mean, there's some people that only want to invest in major metro major metro areas. But guess what, somebody also needs to own the buildings in the secondary markets as well. And some people want to invest in this state, and some people want to invest in that state. And so if you're out there looking to invest, it does take a little bit of networking to find the people that are the right fit. But you know, you guys have a niche, and you stick with it, and you've gotten better at it, you know, the pitch roof thing probably either came from advice from somebody else or something, you experienced the hard way, and you evolve and you learn and you get better.

Ken Wick
That's true. And the longer the more time you get more familiar you become with the market, the types of properties that are there, the whole culture, the area, what kind of industries and job opportunities there are for people that they have for people to do recreation. So that's been really key for us, too. Because a lot of time in the mine area, Devine market, that that we don't have Minnesota, this, we have some veterans and partners that work. That's helped us have a better eye for properties in that area.

Mike Swenson
And you know, being nearby, he doesn't have to be in your own backyard. But you know, same thing for me as I work with investors out of state, in different markets of Minnesota, I have a little bit better understanding of some of the small towns or mid sized towns because I live here and I know and same thing with Des Moines it's a little ways away, but it's not really that far away, you know, you can, you can definitely have a great understanding of it versus, you know, a small town of the same size in California. You know, you you guys don't have as much of a clue unless you have somebody that's boots on the ground or close to boots on the ground in that area that can understand the dynamics of the city and the housing market. So talk a little bit then about the syndication piece for you because I know a lot of people are curious to learn, as you continue to naturally scale up. Well, let's maybe talk about that first scaling up. I was at a lunch today and had a conversation with an investor talking about scaling up because some people started only investing in small single family properties or maybe duplexes, maybe that turns into four plexes or you get into the small commercial. And then maybe you move up to the 48 units or the syndication. So kind of talk about that scaling up piece, and then into the syndications.

Raechel Wick
Sure. Okay, well, so like we said, we started, pretty much the Lord blessed us with the first triplex, which helped us understand like apartment style. Property Management, let's say we start there. And then because you know, single family houses are a little bit different in how they operate and the mechanicals and then when we get to our first 36 unit. The first one was a 36 unit that we came on board as like junior members of the management team of the GP general partnership, where we get to learn a lot and this will be one thing will recommend to those of you that are interested in going to these levels, you will need to come under someone typically first almost like an apprenticeship like we used to see teachers. Well it's the same thing in the syndication world, you typically a lender will not allow you to operate a commercial property without somebody with more experience. So you'll typically learn for a year or two under some other operators and then being on that management team for that amount of time a lender will accept you as being able to operate one yourself. So just know that it takes a couple of years but you need to you know, get on the management team. So we did that 36 units in Las Vegas, it was almost like a flip, we did a 15 month turn. And then our partners who live in Henderson actually picked up a few, they just kind of kept picking up a 2224. Now the 36 on the same like two block radius, and we kept joining them and we were growing, we were able to start teaching people and bring alongside some investors, we were learning. And then we started to kind of have the guts to go solo out here, we, we already had all the underwriting experience, we were ready to try it ourselves is a little scary. It's always a little scary first time you go out on your own. But we got a deal accepted in at Iowa. And then we asked our partners who we partnered with out in Las Vegas if they wanted to join us, except we will operate this one because we're so close. And then they operate the ones out there. So it's worked really well as a good partnership.

Ken Wick
And to your question about syndication, each of the properties that we invest in with it, I guess, partner is invested here and they were all syndications in a group of people come together, each person contributes a certain dollar amount to the downpayment, the earnest money, causing us to be able to be a part of the syndication a part of the purchase. Some people consider general partners that your audience, maybe they know this and I apologise if the general partnership group is the group manages the property, I'll hire a property manager, they'll the bank accounts will work with contractors to get patients done. And then you have a group of another group of people in a syndication called limited partners. And they're basically cash contributors. They put cash into the syndication, they get a return, sometimes it's a month, it's currently or even an annual basis for some syndications. But this is laid out in an SEC document. So people on both sides of the fence limited partners, the general partners, know who is responsible for what and what syndication.

Raechel Wick
Basically, for those that don't know what the limited partners are passive investors, they they have come to realise they don't want to go buy a single family home, they'd rather invest, oftentimes, it's $50,000 is the minimum investment in these, they invest, they often make near double their money throughout the whole hold of the syndication that they're participating in, but they don't have to do any work. So all the work is done by the GP or the general partnership.

Mike Swenson
I mean, kind of the the general rule of thumb or a general guide you hear from people is you had double your money in five years, you know, six years, seven years, whatever that is. But that's a good, good way to summarise the returns and a clean and easy way to understand. But then going back to kind of what we chatted about earlier, the responsibility, the money, like you have to sit face to face or zoom to zoom or phone call or email with these people and say, here's how it's performed. And I think that's the thing that sometimes people don't fully wrap their head around is I have to sit in front of you. We just did an investor meeting last night with our investor, and you got to have a call and say, Here's, you know, what's happened that went as expected, here's what's happened that didn't go as expected. And what are we going to do, and then, you know, in this call to we were talking about a new investment that we had together. And so that's where it can grow. But you've got to, you know, it's a relationship. It's not just, you know, hey, I'm setting up for an auto deduct with my with my bank, and now they take my money once a month, it's it's a responsibility conversation of I'm taking your money, and I'm responsible for it to do something that we've projected.

Raechel Wick
Yeah, and you become you know, you, if any of your people are looking to do this, they become a business owner. So this creates a business plan. So each property is its own LLC. And you have to have a business plan, how to grow the value of that property, and then you enact that plan. And there's always going to be unforeseeable so you try and foresee every potential unperceivable that could possibly come and you front end load these things. So you always make sure you are building up a large pool of reserves, because you just have to assume something's going to happen. If you do that, then something probably won't happen. So if you anticipate the worst happening and you have a nice pool of money, nothing will probably happen. However, the problem is when you don't have enough of that and you don't think that far in advance and you don't. Front end load these During the whole than usually something happens and it can become a problem. So that that would be an advice. If you're looking for an operator, make sure that they have adequate reserves in a syndication as they're setting it up. Now.

Mike Swenson
One of the other topics I want to touch on quick before we go just because you guys have first hand experience here, talking about cost segregation studies. So we had Jody Nielsen on and she talked about cost segregation studies. And it was actually through you that we were introduced. And so she had a chance to share, you know, from her experience, obviously, as the person you know, helping to execute this cost segregation, study the benefits and the value of that. But for you guys, I want to hear your perspective on how it's impacted you as an investor's using a cost segregation study and using Jody specifically, and what that's meant for your guys's business and your growth.

Ken Wick
That's great, great questions. Not to belabour the point, but yes, you're correct. We, I use Jody and her company Cost Segregation Services, Inc, to do cost segregation studies, and three of our properties actually a triplex here and do our demand is and what what that as to, in a nutshell, a cost segregation study allows you to take your depreciation of rent, instead of renting it out over 27 years. So that that allows your testers to get a piece of paper around the k one at tax time, that's as here's your percentage of the property, that multifamily property appreciation you can make off of your tax is because you're an investor in that property. And it's oftentimes quite a bit of money that that investors can get their taxes. And then I used to guess, if you can't deduct that entire amount in one year, it rolls over and continues to roll over until the entire uptakes.

Raechel Wick
So bonus depreciation, so trumpet enacted the ability to take upfront bonus depreciation, all in year one, on a property, it is currently sunsetting out. And this year, we get to take 80% instead of 100%. Of upfront bonus depreciation, so I'm gonna give an example we're purchasing a property two weeks, we'll be closing on it. We'll call Jodie will say, hey, Jody, can you come out to the property, they're going to, she's going to go through it, and she's gonna break down what's a five year depreciation, like, carpet, and then she's gonna break down all the materials in the property into categories. Oftentimes, that's never done. So you actually don't get to realise all the depreciation on objects that you have at your property. So with that study, then she goes back in they, the engineering group does an amazing job putting this very comprehensively together for the IRS, we then submit it to our accountant, and then he will spread that depreciation across all of the investors or owners within the property, unless they have invested with an IRA or a 401. K, those people cannot participate in that depreciation, because those are separate entities outside of the personal, you know, they can't get a k one like we can. So then that filters down to your personal tax return, and foreign example. So on this one, I think we've got it down to somebody puts in 50,000, they're gonna get like a $24,000, paper loss, you're one. So anybody that has other passive income, real estate, or their real estate professional, will be able to take all of those losses, boom, that year one against their income, which allows them to then hopefully gonna invest in something else, time use of money. So it's just you get the depreciation up front, it's not that like, if you were to sell next year, we'd have to, they've taken the depreciation for future years, so you have to pay some of that back. So you have to factor that into your plan. so plan accordingly for those of you that are thinking on using one when you're going to sell and have that appropriately lined out your business plan.

Mike Swenson
Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing your personal experience because I know it's one thing to hear from her who works at the company but to hear your experience in utilising it is good and for people out there that haven't heard of cost segregations it's worth looking into because they do a free analysis.

Raechel Wick
I will tell you one thing we forgot to say is it's actually brought us return investors Because of the they did not realise how much they would be able to take off of their personal income taxes, because of this step being.

Ken Wick
One of them was my brother, who was reluctant to get into our first got into the fourth one. And he got his K. And he got his tax return, he called me and he said, kind of the next one, because he wanted to take a big advantage of that cost egg. And one

Raechel Wick
of our neighbours same thing, she was like, I did not realise this would save me so much money. And I was like, I know the power of this is amazing. People just don't know what they don't know. That's why so much education is needed.

Mike Swenson
Yeah, before we close here, going back to being an education and looking at this as a way to create a little bit of side income, talk about what this investing in real estate and continuing to scale up and grew up what this has done for you guys, for you and your family and your life versus being teachers phenomenal opportunity. You know, if I didn't go into business, I was gonna go into elementary education. So you know, I love having a teacher's heart. But just talk about what investing in real estate is kind of meant to you guys in your lives over the last dozen years or so

Raechel Wick
that's been educators is a calling, people aren't doing it, because they're making money hand over fist. It's a calling, we definitely prayed and asked the Lord, when we were exiting in education to do this, you know, Lord, please still use us in this way. And, again, we try and bring integrity, we try and help the residents build community, we try and give back actually to housing in the communities of the property. So we are trying to do multiple things that also shares our hearts and our call, because we are calls people and then also continue to help newer investors understand how they can help supplement their family's income with something like this. And and not be living paycheck to paycheck. Just by utilising a few creative, creative financing techniques, you know, with what they already have, that always kind of says that use what you already have. And you're kind of surprised what you already have, you just don't realise how you can use it. One of our 23 year old just became a landlord, we already have one that is starting to follow in the footsteps. And our other ones are realising, hey, I'm spending 40% of my income to income taxes. How can I stop this? And we're like, well, let us tell you,

Mike Swenson
the family, the family limited partners, right? Your guys are gonna have an entity where you guys are the GPS and your kids are the LPS. There you go.

Raechel Wick
Well, they probably pretty good capital races and GPS themselves. They, a couple of them were in the military. We're like so many military people, if they have this option, if they understand they could invest small amounts into syndication a little bit every year. By the time they actually exit the military. They can have themselves a nice portfolio built up a passive income. You know, there's so many there's so many different

Ken Wick
Yeah, I'm gonna just gonna reiterate a couple of things that Rachel said, to get into this business. As we get rich, we got into this business because we wanted to help people. And for from our perspective, this is a people business, you're having housing, good cleans if housing for people who need it, some of the residents in our apartment complexes, this is their home, they had been there for 1518 20 years, they don't have a house not ever going to move to a house. This is their home, I have not tried to help make it a great place to live. So we do like Rachel said we do give back. We can't do the doors no an eight to 238 specific to ours. So we don't do that with our cocoa Minister doors, presale sponsor six doors in other parts of the country. We pour back tithing money into housing programmes and food programmes or people, those in those communities. And that's what we want to be about. We want to

Raechel Wick
help people. And as we grow, we can get more.

Mike Swenson
Yeah. Awesome. Well, I love what you guys are doing. I love that you're doing more than just investing right that you really care about people and and there's a lot of people that have been on this podcast where it is more than just looking to make money, right? It's helping people providing great housing. We know there's lots of poor landlords out there poorly run properties out there. That was one of my actually my second property that I got was my brother in law was looking for, you know, he had a bad landlord, I crunched some numbers. And I was like, I think we can make this work if with him paying the same amount of rent and that's what allowed us to make the leap on purchasing a property that we rented out to him and somebody else's because we wanted to help people and so you guys are are doing that. For people that want to learn more about you guys and what you're doing or reach out or maybe you know, learn more about syndications. How can they do that?

Ken Wick
So the best way is an email contact at hire point. Contact at hire point, testing calm.

Mike Swenson
Awesome. Well thank you so much, Ken and Rachel for coming on and sharing your wisdom and best of luck to you guys as you continue to grow in the

Raechel Wick
future. Thank you and you too. Thanks for having me.