Jordan Berry - Laundromat Investing
Jordan Berry was a pastor for 15 years and decided to buy a laundromat as he transitioned out of full-time miniwhta stry. His experience did not get off to a good start. Instead of replacing his salary, he lost $2,000/mo for over a year. In his quest to find other laundromat owners & operators to advise him, he couldn't find much out there. This drove Jordan to create Laundromat Resource as an education and community platform for laundromat owners and future owners to learn, share best practices, and connect with each other so that others don't have to go through what he did to create profitable laundromat businesses.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover the pathway to financial freedom through investing in laundromats.
- Explore the journey of transitioning from a different career to becoming a successful laundromat owner.
- Overcome the challenges of starting a laundromat business and emerge victorious.
- Uncover the numerous benefits of owning and operating a laundromat in your community.
- Master the essential strategies for successfully managing and growing your laundromat business.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Laundromats vs. Real Estate for Cash Flow
00:02:28 - Jordan's Transition to Laundromats
00:09:42 - Importance of Seeking Expert Advice
00:12:20 - Benefits of Laundromat Ownership
00:13:42 - Wealth Tripod: Cash Flow, Equity, and Tax Advantages
00:20:49 - Value-Added Opportunities and Vertical Integration
00:26:07 - Helping Others and Transforming Communities
00:27:05 - Impact of Laundromats in Real Estate
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Read the full transcript:
Jordan Berry
The average real estate deal can't touch the average laundromat deal when it comes to cash flow. Because for the average laundromat, a base hit deal is Looking at a 20 to 25% return on your investment unleveraged. So when you add a loan on top of that, those numbers only go up from there. And that's not talking any value add or anything like that. The way I look at it is I have what's called the wealth tripod, right? You've got cash flow, you've got equity, and you've got your tax advantages.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the Real Freedom show where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Real Freedom where we talk about building time and financial freedom through different opportunities in real estate. I am your host, Mike Swenson. If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, make sure you check out our website, freedom through real estate.com. we've got lots of great videos, articles, past podcast episodes and all that for you to check out. Now, today we're talking about Laundromats and really excited to talk about that. There's so many things, you know, as we talk about different spaces that you can invest in, different ways to build income, there's ways to vertically integrate and you can pick up different things along the way and align yourself strategically so that you can be more efficient with your time and your connections and all of that. And so Laundromats is certainly something that fits very well into other areas of real estate. So we've got Jordan Berry here. Jordan was actually a pastor for 15 years, transitioned out of full time ministry, got a Laundromat and didn't have a great experience starting out, which excited to hear more about that and then just realized he wanted to focus in, you know, helping people build and run laundromats. So created the Laundromat resource as an education and community platform for laundromat owners and share best practices and connect with each other. So, Jordan, we're so excited to have you on the show and hear about Laundromats and share your wisdom, wisdom with us.
Jordan Berry
Hey, man, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and I don't know why, everybody's always excited to hear why things went wrong, but I guess we just all like a train wreck, don't we?
Mike Swenson
I think you hear these stories of like, oh, I'VE got, I've got financial freedom. I've got everything perfect. And my house is all in order and everything's good. And people forget that it takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get there. Tell us kind of how that got started, how you got into the laundromat space and we, we'll go from there.
Jordan Berry
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like you said, I was a pastor for just about 15 years and this is about a decade ago. It was, you know, I had a couple young kids, married here in Southern California, and was just time to transition out of doing that full time. So I was trying to figure out what to do with my life. Had a little bit of an identity crisis. And at the time, I didn't know anything about anything, really didn't know anything about business or real estate or investing in general, Nothing. So we're trying to figure out what to do. And I had a genius idea which was let's, you know, we owned our house in Southern California. I told my wife, let's rent our house out here in Southern California, take the money we have in the bank, let's go buy a condo on the beach in Hawaii and live there and do whatever. I sell jewelry on the beach. Who cares? Like whatever. We're, we're in Hawaii. And then when our kids are school age, if we wanted to come back, you know, we, we come back, net gain condo on the beach in Hawaii. And my wife said we could do that or buy a laundromat. And so bought a Laundromat, not a condo on the beach in Hawaii. And the way that came about was we had a family friend who, he was working a high tech job in the San Francisco Bay area and he was making good money, but he was working, you know, 70, 80 hours a week sometimes. And so he ended up buying a Laundromat. One laundromat replaced his income and was working five to ten hours a week. And we were like, yeah, like that sounds great, let's do that. Money coming in, very little time invested. But as you alluded to, it didn't work out like that for us initially. And it ended up being we lost a lot of money and I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out. So it's the exact opposite of what we're looking for. But that's how we got into it.
Mike Swenson
I've got so many questions to get through, but kind of operationally there's a bit of a knowledge gap going from never having run one before to knowing how to run One, you know, the machines themselves, making sure they're working well, making sure they're, you know, there's, there's so much to it. So kind of talk about that learning curve of getting in and rolling your sleeves up and kind of figuring out, like, how does this thing work? Was that research you did before the purchase or is that research you did after the purchase as you're kind of getting up and running on it?
Jordan Berry
Yeah, well, as you could probably guess, I mean, I did as much research as I could going into it, but this was a decade ago. There really wasn't a whole lot of information out there at the time. And you know, the family friend, he, he did help out a lot, but he had a very different experience than we had. He bought the Laundromat and it was like gangbusters from the, from the get go. And so he really didn't have a whole lot of. A lot to help with because he just didn't have experience in the situation we ended up in. So. Yeah, so, you know, there's a, there's a stat that floats around. Probably a lot of people have seen it that says, you know, 95% of laundromats are successful. And for the life of me, I could not figure out how I was in the 5% that couldn't figure this easy business out. Right. And, you know, it turns, it turns out that, you know, what was, what was sold to me was the dream of, you know, here's all this money that's going to come in. And I got, I was, I was sold a pro forma of like, here's what's going to happen. And, you know, was told basically, hey, you're just going to have to come in once or twice a week to collect quarters. And you know, I'm. My laundromats are here in la. And so, you know, there's just a whole lot more to it than anticipated, especially because of the area that it was in. And so, you know, I had problems with, you know, homeless people trying to sleep there. You know, machines would break down, people would vandalize, you know, graffiti the place. So there was a lot of things I just didn't anticipate and I just didn't know what I was doing. And, you know, I made a lot of, you know, bad decisions and stuff, including, you know, as. As the business was losing money, I kind of panicked. I didn't know what to do and I couldn't find anybody to help me. And so I kind of turtled up, right. And I stopped Investing any money in marketing because I was like, there's already money going out. I can't send more money out. Right. And it's like the exact opposite thing to do. You got to get people into the, into the store. So it was just a series of bad decisions that I made. And so, you know, that learning curve for me, even in the, even in the, the easy business of laundromats was a, was a pretty steep one, you know, on. In the get go.
Mike Swenson
Now talk about. You mentioned the pro forma. So did you have an accurate pro forma or where was that gap in terms of getting in and losing money? Was it. The pro forma wasn't as accurate? Was there unexpected expenses or kind of. How did that shift as you, as you rolled into it?
Jordan Berry
Yeah, you're just, you're just digging in there, aren't you? Because here's, here's what happened is the, the, you know, I'll just, I'm just going to lay it all out there for you. Just no pride here. I'll tell you. I'll tell you how it was. The, you know, I, like I said, I didn't really know a whole lot about the business or any business at all. And so I relied almost entirely on the broker. And the reality of it is this broker just didn't have my best interests in mind. So, you know, in, in the laundromat business and pro formas, we measure the performance based on what we call a term per day. That's one of our KPIs, term per day. And that's the average number of times a machine is used. Each machine is used per day in your store. And you know, round three, three and a half is kind of the average. And you know, I think the pro forma he sent me started at 5, which there laundromats doing 5 and beyond. But that's not a conservative number whatsoever. And that particular laundromat was never going to do that many turns per day. So that number looked really good. Another thing that he told me and I just was like, okay, yeah, you, I mean, you know what you're doing. But he told me, look, this is, this, this laundromat that I bought is what we call a zombie mat in the industry. It's a, you know, fixer upper laundromat. And he said, look, this is a fixer upper. So we really don't need to do any due diligence. It's basically breaking even now. We're going to put new machines in and you know, renovate the place and stuff. So here's just look at the pro forma. And I was like, okay, that makes sense to me. But the reality of it was is that it wasn't breaking even. It was losing a couple thousand dollars a month. And then when I bought all new equipment and all that, I had a note payment in addition to that. So business did go up, but also my expenses went up. So I just was losing money left and right when I was expecting to be making a lot of money.
Mike Swenson
Well, and I should say, like my background's in multifamily real estate. I've certainly seen my fair share of, you know, inaccurate pro formas, inaccurate, you know, T12s of past performance. I'm actually looking into a deal right now where the broker basically told me, you know, this person inherited the property. There's nothing on past financials. Like they don't know. They don't necessarily have rent rolls, they don't necessarily know what the leases are. So I, I get it. Like you can do due diligence and be great at it and there's stuff that comes up and now in some cases, people like that might not take the risk. In some cases, people might decide to take the risk. So yeah, I've been all over the place in terms of what information I've had looking backwards and then. Yeah, what information going forwards can you properly project? And, and certainly, you know, we project ren and new leases and you know, vacant units, things like that. So yeah, there's things all over the place where, you know, if a couple of those go in your favor, great. If a couple of them don't go in your favor, it makes it a little bit longer of a turnaround. So I totally understand that.
Jordan Berry
Yeah. And I mean, I think that's true for any asset class. Right. Like anything that you're doing for the first time, you're just not going to know. But that's, I mean, that's a big part of why, you know, after I worked through all those very expensive, you know, multi six figure mistakes that I made early on in the process and all the, like, literally like just pain of going through all that and started figuring things out and stuff, I just decided like, nobody should have to learn these lessons the way that I learned them. Right. So that's kind of why I started Laundromat Resource and then started doing, you know, some coaching calls or consulting calls and then put together a little team just to help people. Like if you're going through due diligence on, you know, a Laundromat or any other business, like, just if it's your first one or first couple, just bring in somebody who, you know, who knows what to look for, knows what questions to ask, knows the red flags and knows realistic projections going forward so that you don't make any of those mistakes. Because the cost of that. I've said this a bunch of times, like me back then could have had a 15 minute conversation with me now and it would have saved me six figures easy. And so, you know, that's. If you're getting into multifamily or flipping or, you know, whatever the asset class is, just find somebody who's got experience and ask them or pay them or whatever you got to do, but just, you know, have somebody else who has that experience give you that input going forward.
Mike Swenson
Now, what would you say to somebody that is interested in a laundromat as a business? You know, if I'm looking at a Laundromat or I'm looking at maybe some other options, sell me on the laundromat here. What's the benefits when done? Well, that somebody can look into, into and kind of scale it as they continue to grow. You get one up and running. But what is kind of that appeal for somebody, you know, what, what would that look like?
Jordan Berry
Yeah, I mean, my original dream is a realistic dream. It just wasn't the realistic dream for that particular laundromat, but the dream of money coming in and very little time going out. Disassociating time and money is. It's real. And you know, this is, this, this podcast, right, is all about financial freedom and all that. Well, when we talk about financial freedom, leaving your, your nine to five, those kinds of things, what we're talking about is cash flow. And I love real estate investing. I have real estate. I'm a huge fan, maybe even more so than laundromats. Sometimes, however, the average real estate deal can't touch the average laundromat deal when it comes to cash flow. Because for the average laundromat, a base hit deal is Looking at a 20 to 25% return on your investment unleveraged. So when you add a loan on top of that, those numbers only go up from there. And that's not talking any value add or anything like that. The way I look at is I have what's called the wealth tripod, right? You've got cash flow, you've got equity, and you've got your tax advantages. And laundromats do really well on cash flow and they do pretty Darn well on tax advantages and they build equity slower than real estate. Real estate, on the other hand, the way that I look at it, by and large does really well on equity, really well on tax advantages and so, so on cash flow. And so the real power in my mind is when you can marry these two together, either by buying the real estate with a laundromat and maybe some other units in it in like a commercial strip center, or taking cash flow from your laundromat and putting it into investment real estate. Huge, huge, huge growth.
Mike Swenson
I totally get that. And I know even in the real estate space, a lot of people like to focus on better ca flowing properties or maybe picking areas where there is better cash flow, maybe a little less than the Californias of the world. And, and that's why people look to Minnesota because it's a little better. But even at that, it's not like, you know, I bought one property, I'm going to go quit my job because I have enough cash flow. Like, you're right, that takes time. And so if you look at this as maybe a 10, 15, 20 year opportunity, okay, let's get some cash flow. Let's maybe get a laundromat to get started. Be successful at the beginning, right? Learn and educate yourself. Get that going and then that cash flow can invest into other deals. And I've had, you know, past gu on that, have bought businesses to build cash flow to then invest back into real estate. And so that's certainly kind of a paired opportunity there for, you know, looking at opportunities. You had mentioned your zombie laundromat there that, you know, it's, it's kind of a fix and flip. But how much of the strategy is taking something that isn't working, making it better or. I mean, if people have a good laundromat and they're not having to spend a lot of time there and it's making money, do those opportunities really come up much?
Jordan Berry
Yeah. So let me answer your second question first and then I'll go back to your first one. So. So, you know, one thing that's interesting is that it's, it's more difficult to buy a laundromat today than it has been since I've been in the industry for a decade and I think probably a long ways before that. Part of the reason is because of people like Cody Sanchez, you got Brandon Schlichter from Investment Joy and all the people on TikTok collecting quarters and showing stacks of money. It's really raise a profile of laundromats as an asset class, which is great. And then also new technology coming in, making it easier to manage, making it easier to manage remotely, making it easier to manage multiple, all that. But you know, the question of do they come up for sale ones that are performing well? Yes, they do. And it's just like real estate, right. There's different motivations. You know, there can be great real estate that comes up for sale because somebody died, somebody's retiring, there's a divorce, somebody's relocating, you know, illness, like all, all, all the same kinds of things happen with businesses and laundromats in particular. Right. So they do come up however, you know, they, they can be tough to find, especially right now in today's market. But going back to, you know, do they have to be a fix or flip? Part of it is, you know, what you're looking for, same as real estate, right. It's like, what are you looking for? What's your goal? You know, some real estate investors, they're focused on fixing or the brrrr method or flipping or whatever, and some just want stable class A, class B properties that are just going to perform. Right. So part of it depends on what your goal is. Part of it depends on what your capability is in terms of how many, how much finances. Obviously you're going to pay more for one that's making, you know, $200,000 net of cash flow versus one that's breaking even. You got to go fix it up. So, so it really all kind of depends on what your goals are and what your, your position is in, your strategy is. But, but both can be super viable ways to go.
Mike Swenson
Now, in terms of locations, you had mentioned, you know, doing marketing, trying to get new people in, you know, obviously you move the building when you, when you've got the building. So how much can you increase things or what are maybe some of the strategies of increasing the foot traffic to try to get people in? You know, are you looking at what areas it in, how much regular foot traffic comes? Are people willing to drive a little bit to a great laundromat versus not a great laundromat? What are maybe some tips you can give folks is that might be analyzing a deal and wondering like how much does that location play in and how much can I grow that from when I take it over?
Jordan Berry
A lot of it depend. There's most of my answers are it depends.
Mike Swenson
Right.
Jordan Berry
I get it. I'm trying to tell you what it depends on at least. Yep. So if you're in like a city, you know, or Even like a, it doesn't have to be a major metropolitan, but especially there, but even just like a, you know, a normal size city, you're not out in the boondock somewhere, then you're probably looking at around a mile, like here in la. I'm looking at like a half mile radius around. Realistically, I'm not going to draw too many people on a self serve laundry from more than half a mile where I'm at or a mile in like a, you know, a normal kind of situation. So I'm looking to see, you know, how many people are in that area, what my competitors are like in that area. And this, this is for self serve laundry. So. So when you do kind of the demographic analysis, you're looking at, you know, people at or below median income, usually usually a renter demographic and that's going to be your primary target audience for self serv serve laundry. However, laundromats. Another great thing about laundromats is that there's two kind of paths to scaling and you can do one, the other or both. And one is add a bunch of locations which I've got buddies who do that exclusively. The other is you can start adding the service side of the business. Right. And this is where it actually can integrate pretty well with real estate. Again, we were kind of talking about that before we hit record. But you can offer drop off laundry. So now you're hitting a different demographic, probably going to be people above median income and it can widen the radius a little bit. And then if you add in pickup and delivery, where you actually go out and get it from the customer, whether it be a residential customer or a commercial customer, like a salon, a massage parlor, yada yada yada, small hotel, motel, you know, et cetera. Now your radius is going much wider and also you are hitting different demographics again of residential, but also you're including small businesses within that too. So you have a lot of different levers to pull when you own a laundromat depending on what you want to do and how, how big you want to grow it and what you want to get involved in.
Mike Swenson
And we talked about this offline too. You know, we've got some short term rentals ourselves. I've got some friends that have short term rentals that yeah, there's a heavy need for laundry when there's turnovers and you know, we've got some where it's same day turnovers and obviously we have extra sets of sheets there but at the end of the day those sheets need to get washed before maybe the next guest comes in. And so that's where some of those services can really pay off versus having a unit where there's a washer and dryer there and you've got to wait for all the laundry to finish before your cleaners can leave. You know, there's some differences there. So there's a lot of great opportunities there to have some value add opportunities that you can grow off of.
Jordan Berry
Yeah, and we were talking about like vertical integration. Right. If you're managing short term rentals, it's, you can offer that as a service and you know, now you've got self serve customers that are coming into your laundromat that are paying the bills and maybe even a little on top of that. But then everything else that you're doing for your property management company, we're offering a linen service to your, you know, the properties you're managing. You know, that's, that's gravy right there. And you can offer that to other property managers or if you just own a laundromat, you can go to these short term rental property managers and say, hey, we're offering the service. Right. So that's a whole other, you know, avenue that you can go with with a laundromat.
Mike Swenson
What type of in person presence does it take? So obviously I get, you know, probably depending on how much the machines break down or things like that, but like if it's going okay, I mean, I'm sure you've got cleaners that come in every day to make sure that, you know, over the last 24 hours you hopefully people throw stuff away, but you got to come in and do that. Obviously you're kind of collecting the coins out of the machines. But what's kind of some of those in person needs that pop up throughout a typical week.
Jordan Berry
I always joke that as soon as the first dryer sheet hits the floor, it's like a free for all. And people feel like they can do like throwing diapers around and chicken bones and all kinds. Like you're like, it's just, it doesn't matter. All no holds bar now. But yeah, so you, I mean you're gonna have people cleaning, you know, stuff like that. Some, some owners do that themselves, you know, but, but in my mind that's not the goal of owning a business like a laundromat. Right. You know, maintenance, a lot of owners do maintenance themselves. Maintenance can get costly, especially you have older machines. But again, outsourcing is more ideal if you ask me, if you're able to so you know, once things are kind of up and running, you have the right people in place and the right systems in place and the right technology in place. I mean, management, you're looking at maybe five to ten hours a week of management and that's, you know, collecting quarters, if you have quarters. But you can also add digital payment systems like card or app payment systems and even just a lot of Laundromat, just getting rid of quarters altogether, which I think is a good thing by and large, especially for management purposes. You know, so really, I mean you're looking at five to 10 hours that's included being in the store, you know, checking in on your, on your employees, making sure they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, showing up all that stuff, you know, doing the books and accounting and paying bills and all that stuff. So really management can be, you know, very, very minimal. And the more you scale, you know, a little bit more time gets added until you get to a certain point where you can add that next level of management there to take care of a lot of those tasks for you.
Mike Swenson
Have you ever heard the phrase you're the average of the top five people that you hang around? Well, real estate agents, I'm excited to increase your five with you. We're launching the Real Freedom investor Agent tribe to help you get educated and connect with others to build your real estate investing journey and also to help you along the way as you're working with real estate investors. So come check it out our, our website, realfreedom.com go to the store. We have a membership, we have a mastermind group and private coaching to help you stay accountable to your real estate investing goals and to make sure that you connect with like minded people to accelerate your progress and to cheer you on along the way. Check it out. RealFreedom.com click on the store. Now talk a little bit about Laundromat resource. Being able to connect people and help people in the stories you hear and, and kind of the best practices and putting that all together to truly be able to help people. Like you said, you know, somebody can walk in and know a lot more going in with their first property than they would have, you know, 10 years ago because of what you're building.
Jordan Berry
Yeah, I mean, and like I said, like that's why I, that's why I started. It didn't, it never started to be a thing. I just started a little blog just to share the lessons that I learned because I was like, gosh man, that was just so painful going through all that stuff. And then I realized writing was difficult and took a long time. So I was like, I'll just start a YouTube channel. So I started a YouTube channel and started talking about lessons, and that kind of actually took off. And. And then I was like, well, if I really want to help people, I should talk to as many people in this industry who are doing cool stuff as possible. So that's where my podcast started. Learn about Resource Podcast, where I interview owners and other industry professionals there. And it's. It's been awesome, man. It's. It's so cool to be able to help people who are trying to do something for themselves and for their families and for their communities. And one of the things I love about Laundromats, yes, I love that you can make good money, you know? Yes, I love that you don't have to spend a lot of time doing it, but you also get to do it in a way. Like, Laundromats have, like, this unique space where it's one of the few places that communities still gather together in the communities that do laundry at Laundromats. And so you actually have an opportunity to make a cool impact in communities when you own a laundromat. So, you know, it's kind of that trifecta where you're making good money, you don't have to spend a ton of time, but you make a pretty big difference. And by extension, I feel like by helping other people get in the business the right way, run their business as well. I'm helping them and their families, which I love. Just having a small part of that, but also having a very, very small, but a little bit of a part of helping transform communities in positive ways, which is just. I don't know, I. I love that. I think that's a huge motivator that keeps me doing. We're like 175 podcast episodes in. And it's hard, you know, like, it's a hard grind to. To do these things, and it's a lot more work than it looks like it is. And. But I keep going because I just. I love. I love that part of it.
Mike Swenson
So how can people find you?
Jordan Berry
So laundromatresource.com laundromatresource everywhere else. Podcast, YouTube, socials. My email is Jordan Berry O R D A N resource.com and yeah, I'm around.
Mike Swenson
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on, sharing. It's definitely a great opportunity for people in real estate, considering real estate, and it's a part of real estate yeah. If you've got a commercial space inside a building you own, you know, you can do that. We've got a, you know, one property that has a. An open space, and we're like, what's a little kind of cash flowing opportunity we could put into there? Right. So it's, it's a way to be able to create cash flow inside of your other opportunities. So thanks for what you're doing, and thank you for helping out those laundromat owners to be able to be better and be sharper at their craft.
Jordan Berry
I appreciate it, man. Thank you for having me on. And hopefully you and everybody listening got a little something good.
