Erin Shine - Creating Profitable Net Zero Rental Properties
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What if you could create a net zero home (creates enough renewable energy to power the home) that also was a profitable rental? Meet Erin Shine, who is the perfect balance between sustainability and a real estate investor. After creating his own 7-figure Inc. 5000 company, which he successfully exited in 2017, and having been a real estate investor since 2009, he set out on a new adventure. He wanted to combine using energy efficiency and renewable energy with traditional real estate investing principles to make a win-win with both monetary and environmental goals. He packed up from Denver, CO and moved to Cape Coral, FL to create a net zero rental property. Listen and find out how he did it, the lessons he learned along the way, and how you can position yourself into an amazing niche where you too can help the environment and create a profitable rental portfolio at the same time!
In this episode, hosted by Mike Swenson, we discussed:
- When Erin was focusing on Net Zero investments, he first wanted to ensure they were going to be profitable, just like any other investment property
- In addition, he wanted to do something great for the environment, be sustainable, and keep the same real estate investing principles
- Coming out of the recession is a great time to start buying things
- When you want to do a net zero project, the primary need is a great roof for solar panels
- Being conscious of the speed of the project you're taking on, because the mental toll of living on a project gets to you
- The larger the roof, the more panels you can put on, to maximize your energy input.
- Heat pump hot water heaters are very efficient to use if you need to replace a current water heater in your property and want an energy efficient solution long-term. These are more expensive.
- When thinking about creating a net zero home, people can start with the lowest cost and highest impact item, which is air sealing - making the home less leaky
Timestamps
0:00 – Intro to Erin’s Career
1:37 – Erin's Transition To Today's Success
6:54 – How He Got Started
9:16 – Commercial Syndications
11:00 – Selecting Properties
17:28 – BRRR Strategy
20:47 – His Second Net zero Home
23:04 – Erin's Advice and Recommendations
26:36 – How to find Erin
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https://www.attainablehome.com/ebook/
https://www.facebook.com/eshine11
https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinshine/
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Full transcript here:
Mike Swenson
Welcome to The REL Freedom Podcast where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.
Mike Swenson
All right, welcome everybody to another episode of The REL Freedom Podcast where we talk about people pursuing time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. And today, we're going to be adding another component on that which is going to talk about sustainability, creating great opportunities to help the environment in addition to building wealth. And with that being said, we've got our guest here today, Erin Shine. And a little bit about Erin, he's actually been in sustainability for his whole career was laid off back in 2010.
Mike Swenson
During the recession in his mid 20s, I started a seven figure Inc, 5000 Rent company and had a successful exit and 2017. You've been a real estate investor since 2009. You were in Colorado, and then you move to Florida. And now your passion is helping people invest in their own homes by using practical sustainability, with your company attainable home. And you guys focus on a combination of using energy efficiency, renewable energy, with traditional real estate investing principles to create a win win between monetary and environmental goals. And so you are now in St. Petersburg, Florida, after a brief stop in Cape Coral. So welcome, Erin, we're so excited to have you on the show.
Erin Shine
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Mike Swenson
Yeah. Talk to us a little bit more about your background and how you you made that transition to where you're at right now.
Erin Shine
Yeah, thanks. And thanks for the intro. Again, as you said, I always bet was in sustainability. And from early on, I was interested in sort of the combination of business or money savings and investment with the environmental and kind of like if we can do the latter, what why not do a win win all the way across. And why I started a tangible home kind of jumping around here was because there's so much noise and terms and things being thrown around with net zero and ESG. We hear about and everyone's talking net zero by 2050, and all this stuff, and what does it even mean?
Erin Shine
But how I got here was I was interested early on in this space kind of in college, and all of the all of us real estate investors, my friend handed me, Rich Dad, Poor Dad and sophomore year in college, and the rest is history there. But I also I always had this idea to combine it with sustainability. So right after college, Greg was in finance real estate at University of Central Florida. And then I researched Colorado was kind of the next big up and coming state with solar and I really wanted to get into solar. So just packed my car drove out there and chase the company for two months until they hired me basically. But that's how I got started. My first job was selling solar, and it's much of the same as we see now with people door knocking, you know, hanging stuff on your front door, the calls the YouTube ads. And so I did that was a little disenchanted back then, because the cost was so high.
Erin Shine
Like even in Colorado, even with a 50% rebate, it was still 20 to 25 years on your money in a recession, you know, in 2008. And it just wasn't making sense. So through that I found energy efficient lighting. And I worked for a company in Boulder for a year and a half. And that went under. And then two weeks after that, basically I was on unemployment, I started an energy efficient lighting distribution company took it online was one of the first in the country going ecommerce with it. And then hadn't had a good exit in 2017 with that. And so since then, I was kind of I got more or less full time into real estate investing.
Erin Shine
I had some residential properties but got into commercial syndications. Investing in a number of those and and kind of looking at the whole space and I was like how can we distill down and simplify real estate investing, to combine all these things we talk about personal finance, financial freedom, wealth building and inflation hedges, you know, understanding the macro picture, the monetary system with sustainability in a real way. So it's kind of like whatever anyone's individual goals are, well, we're covering that too. And so with attainable home, it was like, Okay, I've never done a fixer flip before. I've never done a netzero home before and I wanted to do something affordable to prove that it was possible because most Net Zero homes I could find were like a million dollars.
Erin Shine
And in Denver at the time the average home was 700 grand Under so and so I went back to my hometown, which was Fort Myers, Cape Coral, as you mentioned, and just right, didn't know the pandemic was starting, but it bought it right before us the birth strategy, it was a $200,000 house a three to 1800 square foot thing. And I, you know, just over eight months, lived in it and carried out this experiment to try to make a net zero, with two important goals.
Erin Shine
One being keeping it within the median average home price of the area so that regular home homeowners or the or average homeowners could afford it and still be net zero. And I wanted to also power the electric car in my case is Tesla Model three, which is not normally the definition of net zero producing as much as you use. And I also wanted to stick to the real estate investing principles that we all do, such as Make sure that it's actually profitable, whether it's rented or whether whether it's a primary residence or whatever, it can make sense as an investment. So that even if the market tanks or whatever, you still can cashflow. And so a number of things there, but that's how I kind of got to it. So I've done two of them. And now I'm in St. Pete Florida, sitting in my second netzero home that I finished a few months back.
Mike Swenson
That's awesome. Because a lot of times, you know, people think like okay, if I'm gonna pursue wealth now, there's a lot of great opportunities out there to pursue wealth, but sometimes people might think it has to be I have to forego something else. And you're looking at how can I have my cake and eat it too, do something sustainable, do something great for the environment, and still keep those real estate investing principles. Before we get to the attainable home piece, which is what we'll talk about most of the episode here. Go back and just quick cover your real estate journey. You know, I know you had mentioned about doing syndications, doing some residential? Can you just kind of share how you got started? Because I know a lot of folks want to figure out how do you get started in real estate. So I'd love to hear maybe just how you got that beginning? And then we'll fast forward and dig dig deeper on what you're working on today.
Erin Shine
Sure, yeah. So it started with a with a few just primary residential homes that I bought to live in and I rented out different rooms and things like that called House hacking. Yep. Today,
Mike Swenson
house hacking before house hacking was was a popular
Erin Shine
Exactly, which is just renting a room. So, you know, did that, sold it. A lot of its timing and luck, especially in business in real estate. I mean, coming out. Coming out of the recession is a great time to start buying things right. So oh nine in Colorado, everything's depressed. So got a little bit equity equity there, rolled it into a condo in downtown Denver that just shot up because also by luck, everyone's moving to Denver, the city just blew up at time. So that's why it's always important to mention time and Simon luck with business or investing. And so had a few residential properties. When I got the energy efficient lighting company up and running, and I was grown. Well, I bought another good rental in Denver that I've that I've kept. And then I sold the company. So I had a few residential properties.
Erin Shine
But then really got into commercial syndications and investing in a lot of different ones mainly for diversification. If we go back to 2017, and 2019, that was before the pandemic or the macro picture changed quite a lot. And if we rewind, then, I mean, you would get nearly nothing for your money on bonds for yields, cap rates are so compressed, and they still are in many ways, but you know, you're just looking for yield, how can I be general inflation and things and make any kind of cash flow here is really tough. So you know what a lot of multifamily Self Storage syndications and so I'm still in a bunch of those. Okay, and now you can add the to net zero homes here in Florida to that so, you know, not a giant portfolio. It's a big mix of stuff but diversified, at least for in my case. Yeah.
Mike Swenson
And how did you find out about those syndications? Because I know there's a lot of folks out there they're like, I've heard about those things. I don't really know, was it you know, friends or family that you knew or other investors that you knew that you that you were introduced to it? Or how did you find out about them?
Erin Shine
Kind of I'm in one specific group called the 506 investor group. And that's, I think they're one or 2000 members and at where I just kind of stumbled across it all started with the question of whether you sell any of your real estate investments or a company or something, it's like one How can I not lose my capital, which would be a nightmare situation and then to like, what do you do with it to stay ahead of inflation and just reinvest So I think through a number of things, of course, listen to all the podcasts, you know, bigger pockets was in sort of the real estate world. Anyway, so you just become familiar and that that's if I think back then that's when these syndication models were really just becoming popular. And I think it started with crowd funding, like online crowd funding. Yep. Which was, correct me if I'm wrong, I think the Jobs Act of 2012. And then it sort of snowballed from there where you could start investing online
Mike Swenson
I think that's just important for people to know just to share, because a lot of new investors or people that haven't yet started investing, it's always the question of how did you get started? How did you find out about those first couple. So let's dig into your projects now in Florida. So, as you mentioned, you know, you had goals, you wanted to have the home be affordable. And so you were looking to go back to your roots, Cape Coral, Fort Myers area, how did you go about selecting that particular property?
Erin Shine
Yeah, it's interesting. The one you know, we all have our different calculators that we use to run, run numbers on. But at the top of the list, when you want to do a project like this, you need a roof, that's going to be good for solar, because my thought was that, okay, if if any of this, if none of the efficiency stuff really works out, or pencils, then I've got to make up for it in more solar. And it takes up a lot of roof space, I mean, you're talking hundreds of square feet up there on the roof. And you need a lot of things like unencumbered, no trees, no shading, south facing. In our case, in the US, it's just a matter of like, ideal tilt angle. And so when in 50 houses are so literally looking at Google Earth and the roof, and like what shading there was so so you know, it was a combo between
Mike Swenson
what you're seeing as they didn't have a search in the MLS for South facing roof with no trees blocking it, that wasn't a search that you could be put your cell phone,
Erin Shine
which is a good idea, by the way. Because the solar companies have really cool tools now that measure the sun's radiation through the year, and the shading and computer modeling does this for you anyway, and a good resource there, you could just type in your address to project sunroof and that's Google's solar kind of radiation tool. I wouldn't I don't know if the numbers are accurate anymore in terms of like payback and system costs and stuff like that, because it's all based on your energy bill and other factors. But at least you can see the radiation that hits your home so that's a tool that people can use but yeah, so you know looked at looked at all the metrics and and just went for it use the birth strategy more or less and so I paid 200 cash for it and I put 100 into it and about a quarter of that was the efficiency and solar so call it 75 To make it you know redo pretty much everything into a furnace rental which that's what it is now and that zero furnace rental
Mike Swenson
25 for the solar so you put that in and then what what type of work needed to be done to the home for
Erin Shine
Pretty much everything now and again it was my first one so a lot of lessons learned a lot of money burned on redoing projects or just miss allocated funds you know, but and it was during the pandemic also supply issues are starting labor issues. I mean it was tough and even the one I did here in St Pete in a similar fashion was twice as hard for for other reasons but yeah what did I do I you know, full kitchen remodel typical fix and flip type of thing. new a new roof had just put been put on it which is a good point when looking for going net zero or solar because you want a newer roof so the the previous owner had done the roof already. But yeah, pretty pretty much everything new flooring, new paint kitchen down to the studs, new hot water heater, which we'll talk about in terms of a really good energy efficiency thing to do. New drywall, plumbing, anything that needed to be it was pretty much kind of a late 80s, early 90s home that we stated we made fully fully new. Yeah, incorporating some of this efficiency stuff at the same time.
Mike Swenson
You were living in the house at the time. Were you doing any of the work yourself or did you hire all that out?
Erin Shine
Yes to learn, I worked alongside them, and they'd have to work myself and just to kind of learn the trades and everything. And, and yeah, just to become a little bit dangerous and we all know how challenging it can be navigating contractors and managing all of that stuff. And so you know, and it still is for me if Fact, like fully admit, I'm not cut out for that. Which is why I went back to blogging and sort of helping other people do this now, right? But But yeah, I just needed to learn. So. Okay, I would not recommend living in a renovation though.
Mike Swenson
Yes, it, it totally impacts your life because you go to the bathroom, take a shower, need to eat in the kitchen, want to just get away and relax in the bedroom impacts your entire life
Erin Shine
do that. And sometimes you don't have a bathroom or a kitchen. Yeah.
Mike Swenson
Yeah, I remember working on somebody else's house for a little bit. And they were renovating the bathroom was like you had to remember to go to the bathroom stop at a gas station before you went over to their house, because you're helping to work on the bathroom, because you can't use the bathroom when you're there. So little things like that, but you're living in it all the time. So how long did it take them from kind of beginning to enter do the renovations
Erin Shine
I did planning for two months. And just because I didn't know what I was going to do yet. And I kind of rallied some of my friends in the industry building scientists who have been doing this for decades and people that are build houses and renovated themselves to kind of combine the plan. And then the actual thing start to finish was six months. And and you know building businesses in the past to myself it fully admit it wasn't as efficient as it could be. Because you'd love to get a team in there multiple teams in there at once and hammer it out in his short amount of time as possible. And in all seriousness, speaking to anyone looking to get started, sometimes I did it to save money, I mean, you get the lower. And when you go for mortgages, you get lower interest rates as a primary so you can live in there and you know, house hacking, and you kind of have to work it up.
Erin Shine
But be conscious of the speed that these take because the mental toll of living in a project really gets to you. And I didn't even have I don't have family or kids or anything. And that's I'm sure exponential layers on top of that in terms of mental stress. So it just and I write about this stuff on the website too. But just to caution people, like have it as fast as possible. So it's getting get out. And so you can breathe a little bit.
Mike Swenson
You get in you spend the money, you take the time, you you furnished it, and then did you live in it for a little bit afterwards? Or did you move out then and then rent it out as a furnished rental or kind of what what happened at the end?
Erin Shine
Yeah, so using the burr strategy, that was all cash. So it was time to go for the refi. And so technically, you want to still live in it to go for the refi to to get that lower primary mortgage rate. And at the time, we're all lucky I got 2.99% Because of that, yeah, you know, put 20% in. And, and therefore the the holding costs are very low per month. And so. And in Florida, everyone's moving here through the pandemic, who knew that real estate was going to take off like it did. The party's I mean, it's less of a party now things are slowing down. But things are still, you know, going up a little bit around here anyway. But back then it was just like, you know, get in and hold on because it was just the appreciation. So a lot of my own mistakes and things through the project were covered up because of the general inflation and appreciation of these homes. And that's again, going back to the luck, but luck and timing.
Erin Shine
But yeah, to answer your question, so live in it refight it and then I wanted to move up to the St. Pete Tampa Bay area just for kind of personal reasons. Another growing city, a lot of solar, a lot of sort of sustainable stuff going on around here, among other things, so Yeah, put it on. Put it on Zillow, and a week I had it rented. And I found out instantly that it could because netzero not not I think I was the only one in town and the appraiser had been doing this 17 years in for in Fort Myers Cape Coral and said yeah, some houses have solar and everything but this one, you know it kind of encompasses everything including hurricane impact windows a really low electric bill to start with, and then solar to also power the Evie. And it's done cohesively with like not more maintenance. So it's just kind of like a well put together thing which is valuable.
Erin Shine
And we can get into solar maybe in a bit but if you lease panels for instance, there's a good chance you're lowering value on your home and not increasing because somebody else does stuff on your roof penetrations and effective lien on your property and you can't sell it until they until you pay it off till somebody pays it off the new buyer or or you so yeah, I got a renter right away and it was a couple moving down from the Midwest and they had a solar home up there that they were solely selling and they saw this Solar Home down here with the Evie charger plug in. And it was a done deal was a five minute conversation credit check done, you know, everything's great. And they were fantastic. And so in terms of marketing and short term rentals, you're differentiating your tenants and I found this out with others since then they're kind of on your team, because they love the concept of what you did.
Erin Shine
And they they're more taking care of your house. And sort of like a contentious relationship, like you just, you're helping each other out. And it's just a great situation. And so that was kind of a nice bonus finding out. Because if somebody has an electric car, it's like, wow, okay, this is this is netzero, no, no energy bill, more or less. And I can plug in my car. So the double the savings there.
Mike Swenson
Right. So then when you moved up to St. Pete, similar philosophy, finding that that new rough finding the south facing home, anything that you changed in terms of your search parameters when you were looking up there?
Erin Shine
Yeah, a lot changed. And the and I put this in the latest case study I just wrote on the website, too, about this whole project. But the my criteria was, can we get a house under contract? Because at the time any early 2021, or may 2021, it was just not no inventory, it was even worse than 2020. So it was like, will this house work at all for solar, which in this house, it's a 50s, block home plaster walls, cloth wiring, I mean, all of this. That's why I mentioned twice that headache on the Reno because I had never dealt with that before. And it's just harder stuff to work with and a lot more cost. And I have shading in the backyard. And I was like, Can I Can I just make this work with solar? And so literally, that was the only criteria.
Mike Swenson
So you're still living in it now. Right? Did you do full renovations on it, just like the last one, like extensive nine months
Erin Shine
I did, yeah, inside and out, inside and out a lot of the same stuff. And, and at least the way I do it, which is kind of a blasphemous in the building science world, or, you know, ENERGY STAR energy auditors, I'm coming at it from a real estate investors perspective, because I want the numbers to work, right? found when I used to do commercial projects in lighting, or solar, or whatever the case, it just doesn't happen unless it pencils, delicious, make it pencil. And so with that it's interesting, at least down here in this area, solar is a lot less payback. And it's higher ROI than say, swapping out your insulation in some cases or your age back, let's say your age vaccinated, it's like, well, if you have a 15 year payback, you're going to take out a 2019 H HVAC unit and put in new mini splits or whatever it's like cool you get, you'll save three or 400 a year but you just spent 9000. So especially if it's going to be a rental that's why kind of take it back to ROI and IRR and all that stuff. And and solar is a better way to go put more panels up versus do these projects, and call it a day.
Mike Swenson
What advice do you have for people if somebody wants to take down a project like this? Or if they just want to start chipping away at their own home that they have? What are some advice and recommendations that you have for people?
Erin Shine
Sure, there's kind of a decision tree that most people can start with, one typically the lowest cost and highest impact is air sealing the home just making it less leaky. And in a lot of counties and cities now their blower door tests requirements to get your co certificate of occupancy and down here and so you have to get between three and six ach 50 So that's got to be you know, not so tight that the House can't breathe because then you need mechanical ventilation but then not so leaky that it doesn't pass or it's just inefficient.
Erin Shine
So air ceilings number one and that's in a renovation, it's a lot of caulk and spray can foam. Yep. You know, like between the baseboards and the hardwood, you know, between you can get the out that'll insulator covers behind your wall sockets, because those are all holes into your attic and walls. That's all those are all leaks. So it's a big leaky boat type of thing. And you just try to seal it up as much as possible. So air ceilings one insulation, at least I found it just depends on the house because you know, how's this? They're built differently different year different construction materials, different builder. It's, it's oriented differently to the sun. What kind of Windows does it have? Which way does the sun pour in?
Erin Shine
You know, so we actually on the website, there's an ebook on the homepage where I just You can download it and it's like 50 of these cheaper DIY things that you can kind of go through air ceilings, the big one installation sends a big one, especially if you have areas of the home that that are not insulated at all. That's going to be low hanging fruit. And H vac, it just depends, I had a 2006 units, your 13 in the first house and I have a 2019 here and I didn't touch either of them. Because again, just you add more solar at the end, which solar is the very last thing you do. So you do all the efficiency first. And then solar last. One big efficiency thing is heat pump hot water heaters. And if you can not have water heating in your kitchen or living area, because these new these new hot water heaters make noise, they install just like a traditional hot water heater.
Erin Shine
And they are more expensive, like say a 40 or 50 gallon to install. All in it's $2,000. But in my case, I put them in here and it saves $400 a year on your bill. And so that's enough to power the Tesla for an entire year. Also, it's the same amount of kilowatt hours, which I thought was pretty cool. But you know, doing things like that you spend 2000, instead of like 8000 and solar to produce to produce that power. So that that down here that was like a three year payback on my money. And this all kind of depends to if you're if you're the one paying the bill, like with an Airbnb, or short term, or whatever your deal is with the tenants or if they're paying it. So things to consider as well. But there's this whole decision tree that we kind of go through and it's individual for each house.
Mike Swenson
Great. So any anything else that you want to share with people, you know, any other advice. And then obviously, just you know, you have a lot of great information on your website. So we'd love to go ahead and share, you know, where folks can find out about you too.
Erin Shine
Sure, yeah, parting advice. It is really tough to kind of work through this, there's a lot of noise in the in the industry. And that's what we try to do on the website as best we can. I will say though, it's possible. I mean, even if you do a few of the lower hanging fruit deficiency things, it's worth looking into, even if even if tenants start complaining about drafty nests, or one rooms freezing or, you know, it's kind of like customer happiness, you eat into that part of happy tenants, and they stay longer lower turnover vacancy, so it kind of spills into a lot of different areas. And so with that party, of course, this is what I do, and I love doing it. But after I did two of them here, and I'm connecting with others in the industry, and I've helped friends doing it.
Erin Shine
It's like the the tech and the cost on this stuff is now good enough, where this actually pencils and your ROI, usually on the efficiency, especially combined with solar is higher, in some cases, much higher than your typical rental investment. So you're effectively increasing your IRR and ROI on the whole project by tacking this on. And so again, when we get to the win-win with that, so that that's my parting thought.
Mike Swenson
well, and what I was gonna say to like you had mentioned with the tenants, they love working with you because of what you're doing. And so you're a unique space in the market. And so things like like you said, people are going to be more likely to care for the properties, because they, they buy in to what you're doing. And so you think about, you know, tenants, breaking stuff, damaging stuff, not caring about your property, if they care about the environment enough to where they want to, you know, live in your property, they're going to take better care of the property as well. And so there's some of those hidden hidden winds as well that you're you're going to experience and from a comps perspective, it's so unique. And so yeah, there's there's a lot of big opportunities there, you're differentiating yourself from the market.
Erin Shine
Yeah, and the finish off real numbers when I combined the efficiency and solar savings, I mean, the ROI, because you get a home value increase to on the solar. And so I got two thirds equity back on the solar, what I put in it was 15,000 after the 26% tax credit, and you know, about 10,000 of equity was added to the, the appraised value. So net 5000 In real numbers here on that house 1800 square foot three, two, saving 1700 a year in electricity just for the house. And then if you have an Eevee driving 10,000 miles a year with say a model three, you're saving $3,000 a year because it's no gas and we all know what happened in gas that's your prices. And that's an that's a 19% ROI. You're one and you're hedging against all future price increases. And then when I add back the equity of the solar Um, I mean, you can slice and dice this as you want, but it's near 50% ROI, just for the efficiency and solar piece of it. So that's what I really love about how this kind of turned out.
Mike Swenson
Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing and yeah, how can folks find out more about you, Erin?
Erin Shine
Yeah, thank you. So the website's attainablehome.com. And you can contact me on there for I love working with people on their own projects on these things. And then also that ebook or guide I mentioned on on just regular energy efficiency stuff that anyone can kind of tackle easily, or a handyman or anyone. It's right on the homepage. And also the two projects I did here the case studies, I get full kind of long write ups, which are also on the homepage of attainable home. So that's, that's how you can find us.
Mike Swenson
You do have a lot of great information on your website I went through and I read through the blogs on on the projects and stuff. So the information, love what you're doing and being able to combine providing sustainable homes for the environment along with real estate rental profitability is going to be something that's going to be more common in the future. And you're getting breaking the headwaters here in tackling these projects. So thank you so much for what you're doing. I love what you're doing and excited to be able to pair people who care about the environment with people who care about rental properties and being able to marry that together and build wealth and do it in a profitable way. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing.
Erin Shine
Thank you as well.
