Brian Grimes - The Ivy League Educated Real Estate Flipper

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Brian Grimes is an Ivy League educated real estate entrepreneur and coach. After graduating from Columbia University, Brian originally had a career in Financial Planning. In 2015, he launched his own real estate development company in his hometown of Philadelphia and has gone on to renovate 300+ rental properties all across the country using the BRRRR strategy. He also founded 24/7 Cash Flow University to teach students how to create passive income and escape their 9-5 desk job. He also teaches others how to fully gut, renovate, acquire, and stabilize cash flowing rental property portfolios.

In this episode, you will be able to:

• Work towards mastering turnkey real estate investment opportunities: Learn how to leverage ready-to-go properties for passive income and wealth building.
• Enjoy the Benefits of owning rental properties: Discover the financial rewards and long-term stability that come with being a property owner.
• Scaling real estate investments with virtual assistants: Uncover the secrets to expanding your real estate portfolio with the support of remote professionals.
• Strategize for out-of-state real estate investing: Explore tactics for successfully navigating the unique challenges and opportunities of investing in properties beyond your local area.
• Overcoming challenges in real estate rehab projects: Conquer obstacles and maximize profits through effective problem-solving and project management.

The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Pursuing Financial Freedom
00:06:36 - Cash Flow vs. Appreciation
00:09:33 - Scaling and Building a Team
00:12:01 - Leveraging Smart People for Success
00:16:27 - Working Smarter, Not Harder
00:19:56 - Turnkey Real Estate Opportunities
00:22:43 - Learning by Doing
00:26:00 - Benefits of Real Estate Investment
00:26:17 - Connect with Brian Grimes

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Brian Grimes
The freedom part of the financial freedom is the time. It's the time freedom to wake up and do what you want every day and spend the time where you think it'll be most impactful for yourself and your family. And that is what it is. It's about thinking efficiently. I obsess over systems. Simple systems don't break at scale. So building the simple systems that can withstand the test of scaling up, that's what I obsess over. And that's why I've been able to do more than the average bear.

Mike Swenson
Welcome to the REL Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities and real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some REL Freedom together. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of REL Freedom, real estate leverage Freedom, where we talk about building time and financial freedom through opportunities and real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. If you want to get started on your real estate investing journey, check out our website, freedomthroughrealestate.com dot. That's freedomthrualestate.com dot. We've got videos, articles, lots of information to help you get started or to take your next step on your real estate investing journey. Today we are going to be interviewing Brian Grimes. Brian is a Ivy League educated entrepreneur and coach, and you had a background in financial planning, moved over to real estate, doing a lot of it based out of your hometown in Philadelphia, and you've kind of renovated and done the Burr strategy on 300 plus rental properties. We're just talking offline, doing a little bit more turnkey operations to help people looking for cash flow. And then you also have your 24/7 cash flow university to be able to help people with real estate investing. So we'll get into all of that. But welcome to the show, Brian.

Brian Grimes
Thanks for having me, Mike. I really appreciate it.

Mike Swenson
Tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how you got into real estate.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, I mean, I grew up kind of as just like a Philly basketball kid, realistically, during that Allen Iverson era. So playing sports, I'm kind of like fanboying over the NBA playoffs right now and all the exciting talent. But basketball took me around the country. Like my first high school game, they flew us out to Akron University to play LeBron, which was pretty crazy. And it landed me ultimately at Columbia University. And there, I did play there, but I also met a bunch of amazing mentors who were making more money with their mind than you could ever make with sports so they started to introduce me to trading and real estate. And I also had a buddy, like my best friend still to this day, and he was a little older than me, and he had graduated and started buying section eight rentals in his hometown of Coatesville. And we would just talk about real estate every day. So I knew when I graduated I wanted to work, but I wanted to take all of my money and put it into real estate so that I could build cash flow. I wanted to be my own boss. Neither one of us wanted to be in a nine to five for really any duration of time, just long enough to get out. So that's what I did. I worked. My first job was 100% commission financial planning, and I took every commission check and saved it until I could do a FHA house hack and get my first deal. And I really just never looked back. I just kept buying one property this year, two the next year, three the next year, and then it just continued to balloon until I did over 300 deals.

Mike Swenson
Were all those 300 in the Philly area?

Brian Grimes
No. The funny part is my first deal was in Philly and I kind of bought where I knew, kind of in my backyard, and I was going to move into that property, but ended up getting a job in New York. So then I moved back up to New York because I went to Columbia University. So I kind of have some roots there. So now I'm an out of state landlord. My second property, South Jersey, because I'm already out of state, so why not keep it going? And then my third property, Baltimore, so now I have three properties all out of state in three different states, and I'm managing them from New York. So I kind of scaled kind of all over the place and I'm kind of location agnostic, but I definitely want the cash flow. I got to get the cash flow. So wherever it's at, I'm going to pack up and go get it.

Mike Swenson
I see posts a lot about what's the best place to invest in. Right. The reality is people can make money in real estate in pretty much anywhere. And so, you know, you can certainly have some economies of scale if you pick one location. But kind of to your point, if you find a couple locations at work, you can build and grow and scale and then also maybe mold and shift as the markets change, because Philly's a little bit different from New York, which is different than New Jersey, different from Baltimore. And so maybe, you know, for a, for a series of time, Baltimore is a little bit hotter, you can do a little bit more there and so you can bounce. But I think sometimes people sit on the sidelines, are waiting for that one perfect market and then they don't take action where you can take action and then adjust as you go.

Brian Grimes
Yeah. And also, like, some people are in those priced out markets and they're trying to wait for a market correction that, as you both know, probably will never happen, especially with where prices will head if rates continue to go down or the, you know, the Fed starts to cut, which they're starting to do. So. Yeah, if you're in a bad market, I mean, we live in the day right now where there's so much technology you can invest out of state. This isn't the eighties, right? Like, we have this technology at our fingertips. So you can just go find the cash flow wherever it's at. Don't be sit stuck on the sideline because the rule is buy the real estate and wait, don't wait to buy the real estate. I mean, that's just the guaranteed way to lose, sitting on the sidelines.

Mike Swenson
And to your point, talking about interest rates, you know, what we see right now is a lot of people are like, well, I'll just wait till interest rates come down and then I'll buy, well, what do you think is going to happen when interest rates come down? Prices are going to go up. And so what I've heard and what I've talked to people about is you can't change the purchase price, but if, if rates get better, you can always refinance. So if you can find something that works today, get into it, get into it at the price you got into it at, and then you can refinance later. But if you just sit back and wait, those prices are going to go up and it's going to be extremely competitive when rates go down.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, we're in an inflationary environment. Everybody should know that had jacked up interest rates because of inflation. During times of inflation, the people who hold assets win because those assets are going to inflate. The rents are going to inflate. So if you own the properties already, you're going to do better. And then if rates go down, like Mike said, you can just refinance into a lower rate, unlock the cash flow and grab some of that equity and access that as well. So that's definitely the better move.

Mike Swenson
And you talked about, obviously focusing on cash flow, particularly for beginning investors. They want that cash flow. It helps with that monthly income to be able to maybe get out of their nine to five job. But talk about, as you kind of look at maybe a couple of these markets that you've invested in kind of cash flow versus appreciation. What would you say to somebody that is having a hard time finding cash flow, but maybe they're in a market that has a lot of appreciation, whereas you're focusing on those markets. Well, I mean, they do have appreciation as well, but obviously that cash flow is kind of your driving factor and choosing where you're investing.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, the reason that I go for cash flow is because then you don't have to kind of worry about the market. The market can go up, down, left, right, sideways. It's still going to cash flow because you're putting this on a fixed mortgage. Your taxes are going up maybe 1% a year, but the rents are going up, in some instances, 15, 20% a year in some of these years. So they're really offsetting. If you're in a market that has rapid appreciation but does not necessarily offer cash flow, then you want to be a flipper, and that's really what you want to do, flip into it. So a lot of what I teach, like at the 24/7 cashflow university, is having multiple strategies and multiple ways of navigating markets. You can make money in almost any real estate market. You could wholesale. You could get into creative financing. You can buy and flip, buy and hold. You can do short term, midterm, long term, section eight, low income housing. You can do all these strategies. You just want to tailor your strategy to your market. It's like, I use a lot of basketball analogies because this is just a walk of life. But in basketball, somebody's defending you and they're all up on you. You drive around them. If they're laying off of you, you shoot the ball. So you kind of react to whatever the market is. So if this is a rapidly appreciated market with no cash flow, flip. If there's a. If it's a low cost market where you can buy properties really cheap and the taxes are low, and you can cash flow, then cash flow and let the appreciation take care of itself.

Mike Swenson
Talk about your ability to scale and grow. For some people, it's like, I got to get that first property, but once I get that first one or that second one or a third one, I don't really know how to grow past that. Were some ways or some strategies that used to be able to scale up to doing 300 of these.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, you. You won't do it alone is all I can tell you. Guys like, you will not do this alone. I'm not Superman. I have a nice team, a nice sized team. I have a bunch of virtual assistants. If they say sports is 90% mental, 10% physical, real estate's 100% mental. So that's a good thing for you, because now you can take all these mental aspects of what you do in a deal and you can program it into virtual assistants and they can do it for you at a lower cost. They can out produce their cost. You get a virtual assistant when before you think you need it. That's the rule of thumb. And if you do that and keep allowing them to out produce that cost, you're going to get the economy of scale just by having people who are working while you're sleeping, while you're resting, and while you're burning out and trying to recover from that.

Mike Swenson
And what are some of the things that they've been able to do in terms of tasks or projects or kind of areas of focus?

Brian Grimes
I would say the first thing the question I'll get is like, well, what should I have them do? 1st 1st you need to find what you love to do. For me, I love to do acquisitions. I love finding profitable deals because you really do make the money on a purchase. So I'm going to have them do some things that I don't like to do. Like if there's any grunt work involved in that, I'm going to have them do that. If there's property management things that are weighing me down or paperwork, oh, you got to pull your rental licenses and submit these permits. I'm going to train them to do those mental tasks that I'm doing over and over again that are bottlenecking me because I don't like them, I don't want to do them. I'm going to procrastinate, and then I'm going to design my business so I can just sit in the role that I love the most about real estate. For some of you, that might be the people business and managing the properties. For some of you, it's just buying them. For some of you, it's just building them. So if it's just building them, then train your people to do acquisitions, to go out and find and run comps and put together numbers and rehab budgets. Keep yourself in the position that you love, and you'll be passionate, you'll be excited every time you wake up to do this business every day. And that's how you win. If you keep doing the things you don't like, you're going to burn out.

Mike Swenson
I know for some people, I'm assuming your virtual assistants maybe aren't us based. I think some people have a mental struggle with how do we make that work? I think in some ways it comes down to probably trust and empowerment because I have a virtual assistant, I've been working with her for three plus years and she's fantastic. But kind of talk about maybe some of those mental struggles or kind of the location struggles or the time difference struggles that maybe people have and how you're able to overcome them when you're.

Brian Grimes
Just getting started, you don't know kind of where to find the best people. Like I found, like some of the best virtual assistants are from places like South America, Bogota, Colombia, Buenos Aires. You can definitely get good people from the Philippines as well. But then you have different time differences. But you can use that to your advantage because now if it's a twelve hour time difference, I can have somebody working a shift while everybody's sleeping so they can be on social media or answering the phone when it rings in the middle of the night when property management or watching security cameras on rehab projects through the middle of the night to make sure there's no break inside. And you can typically find valuable work. So I'd say it's a hurdle you just have to get over. But there's so many to me, there's so many pros that I can almost not see any of the cons of it. I mean, you're getting really smart people who will work at a price point that is extremely profitable and gives you leverage, and you need leverage to out compete the competition. This is the difference between me doing 300 plus deals in five to seven years and somebody else who has similar knowledge only doing 30. It's really the team, not just me. So I would say like, take Michael Jordan, he's really good right now. Take 100 high school kids, 1100 versus one. They're going to beat him every time. It doesn't matter. My team's bigger than yours, so I don't have to be better than you. I just have to have a bigger team than you and a more, a better educated team than you in terms.

Mike Swenson
Of kind of local work. Obviously a big piece of the rehabbing and all that is finding great vendors to be able to do that rehab. Talk a little bit about maybe some of the challenges you faced or some of the lessons that you. I'm sure we could probably have our own day long podcast talking about that, you know, because sometimes too, there's the mom and pop type people where it's like, oh, I'll do this project myself. And that's not the best space for you if you want to be able to grow and scale. So you have to find people that you trust to do the work for you. But obviously finding good work and then you've got kind of COVID that was thrown in, that kind of threw off some challenges there, some costs.

Brian Grimes
Yeah.

00:13:16 - Mike Swenson
Changed as a result of COVID Supply chain stuff changed. So talk about kind of working through that.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, it's tough. I mean, I'm no different than anybody who's listening to this right now. Like, I did my first deal out of state. I trusted a a contractor. They burned me for 40, 50 grand. And that really let me know, hey, I got to figure this thing out. I need to really learn how to gc my own project. So I dove into that. And then you'll iterate as you're scaling up. You will go through different contractors. None of the contractors I work with now were there in the very beginning of the scale up because you might have a guy who's like a rock star. If you're doing two deals at once, he's a freaking rock star. Just a monster, just handling everything. Then you go to five deals at once, completely crumbles, just a shell of themselves. So you have to scale up and find some of the best contractors. But what I learned is if you pay people on time and you treat people well and you stick around in this business for a year or two, the best contractors will find you. They'll actually, the word will spread because contractors, no contractors. Dentists, no dentists. Doctors, no doctors. Lawyers, no lawyers. So they'll start to spread that word and find you. And then before you know it, you'll have really good crews. You'll have another problem. Keeping the crews fed, finding enough deals to keep them busy, to keep them engaged, and working on your project. So theres different challenges at every level. When youre first getting started, there are certain challenges. And then as youre scaling, you run into a bunch of different issues and bottlenecks. Things like a warehouse would solve some of those supply chain issues. And that was kind of how I solved around some of those things you were talking about. Its just getting your own warehouse and programming it like your own personal home Depot.

Mike Swenson
Just hearing you talk about handling virtual assistants, navigating crews, going through a bunch of general contractors, and they might think, like, that's too much. Like there's, there's so much stress, there's so much problem solving. Like, maybe I'll just do something small and keep it simple. But to get to where we want too far goals, we probably got to be willing to push past those things and work through those challenges. So talk about finding that balance between the, the opportunity on the other side of the rainbow and needing to go through those challenges and going through those problems to, to get to that other side.

Brian Grimes
I mean, it's definitely rewarding. What I found, what really helped me was I worked at a startup for about two years. That was my last job before I just said, the heck with this, I'm going all in on real estate. So working at that startup, I started off as an employee, I think like 23. It grew to over 500, and I got to watch the scale up. What technology did they use to scale? How did people intercommunicate within the company? All of those things helped me to scale my own business. But what really happened was I was working so hard at the startup that I just said, well, if I'm going to work this hard, I should just do it for myself. You're going to work hard doing whatever you're doing. In fact, there are people making half a million dollars a year working way less than people are making thirty k a year working way harder than them. You're going to work hard. So apply that hard work to something that can make you lots of money and build a passive income where you can get paid over and over for what you did, not for what you're doing. Because we're all getting older, we're all running out of time more than anything. So you have to just apply your time to what you think is going to give you the best return. These things might sound like a lot from the bottom of the mountain, but as you pick up more and more skills, this gets easier and easier. And as you program virtual assistants to do certain roles, you get your time freedom back. This is all about just buying back your time. And there's no more important mission on the planet than you getting your time back so you can spend more time with your family, your kids, and building that next generation up. So it's a journey worth taking. You have to take, and if you don't, then you'll just work forever to build somebody else's dream. And I think that that's uh, far worse. So pick your poison.

Mike Swenson
I remember probably ten years ago, I was doing an interview with somebody and they were talking about how hard of a worker they were, and I can't remember what exactly the job was that they'd done previously and they were on their resume. They had shared like, well, I put in 40 hours a week doing this, and then it got bigger. So I was doing 60 hours a week and then it got bigger. So I was doing 80 hours a week. And I remember talking to that person and they were really highlighting how, like, when things get harder, I'm just going to work harder, you know, like, I'm just going to do more hours. And I remember not hiring that person. And that person actually then reached out to my supervisor and was complaining, like, how come I didn't get the job? And I said, what I want is the person that's going to figure out how to two x the output for the same amount of time. I think a lot of us, myself included, like, I do fall into the trap of trying to work hard through things, but you also got to take a step back and realize, like, what's the end game here? If I'm putting in x amount of hours on a property and now I do forex the properties, that doesn't mean I'm going to work forex the hours. So you've got to figure out how to work smarter, not harder. But you've got to be wired to think through scaling versus just two x three three x four x my time. Because like you said, you want to spend time with your family. That's why I talk on the podcast about building time and financial freedom real estate, because, yeah, there might be a grind time, but there's also a time where you've got to hopefully scale that to where you can enjoy your life.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, the. The freedom part of the financial freedom is the time. It's the time freedom to wake up and do what you want every day and spend the time where you think it'll be most impactful for yourself and your family. And that is what it is. It's about thinking efficiently. I obsess over systems. Simple systems don't break at scale. So building the simple systems that can withstand the test of scaling up, that's what I obsess over. And that's why I've been able to do more than the average bear.

Brian Grimes
Yeah, that's exactly it. As I was, you know, coaching hundreds and hundreds of mentees, I started to see that, that gap where there were people who wanted to access the benefits of real estate ownership, but they just didn't have the time and they were successful in their life. They're working and they're making good money and they're like, look, my wife, if I add real estate to it, I'm out. She's gone. So I started the boots on the ground program and with that, we do everything for you. So I've pretty much opened up access to my team because I'm so good at building teams and I have access to over 150 contractors and all these things. In this program, we find, finance, rehab, tenant, and manage the properties for you. So it's truly turnkey. It allows somebody from California to tap into a top ten cash flow city like Philadelphia and then have me and my team and our decades plus worth of experience going out. We're going to find you birth strategy deals where we can buy them and build them for $0.65 on a dollar or less and then put you in a position to refinance your money out of that deal and build some cash flow, 500, $700 per door on average. So it's been wildly successful. We have people from all over the country, from Canada, New Zealand, like all outside of the country as well, who are tapped in. And I think we just put like seven or eight deals under contract in the last three to four weeks. So even in a tight market like we've been dealing with, you can have success as long as you're in the right market. But this is that turnkey service that people can tap into if they're struggling to find a deal or, you know, they just don't want to get burned for 50 grand by a GC like I had to go through. As an out of town investor, I.

Mike Swenson
Think there's a ton of value for these turnkey opportunities. It really comes down to finding the right person, just like anything. Right. Like you. You got to trust the person that you're working with. But what I see is, yeah, if you think about a busy professional to take the time to learn and go through what you had to go through, it's going to take years. And so you can kind of push that fast forward button through the power of a great relationship to not have to go through the lessons you had to go through. And, yeah, if they don't even live in the area, it's going to make it even harder. And so, yeah, you get a chance to kind of win in both regards. You get all of your value, all of your learnings that you've had, and you don't have to go through those struggles, and you can just kind of push the button and get the future opportunity from that right away versus having to go through those couple of years. And so it's. It's kind of a best of both worlds. And then, like I said, it just comes down to finding the right person that you really trust that knows what they're doing. But, yeah, for that busy professional, you can just pass all the initial struggles by doing a turnkey opportunity, like what you've got going on.

Brian Grimes
Yeah. And, and you and I both know the real value is in being the owner is in owning, you know, the property. So if you can get set up and, and have access to really a multimillion dollar organization worth of, like, leverage, you know, leasing agents, realtors, contractors and builders and all of that deal analysts and people who can find you deals, it is an easy button, but you remain the owner. So you're keeping those tax write off, the cash flow, all the appreciation, that all goes to our people who are tapped in. So it is difficult to find the right fit and to find somebody who will do it with some integrity. But there are people out there. We're one of them. I don't know many people who do this, but because it's difficult to do, it's very difficult to pull off, but it can definitely be a winning opportunity, for sure.

Mike Swenson
Yeah. And I think for a lot of people out there, there's people that like to just consume real estate, investing content and then not do anything. And so you're going to learn by doing. And even though it is turnkey, there's still a lot you still need to learn. And so getting in the game and figuring it out, I always tell people, you know, treating that first property or treating those first experience like an education expense. Right. Instead of me going to school for four years, eight years, and getting into debt and doing all that, getting a second masters degree or something like that, I can invest in real estate and hopefully I dont lose money on that first deal. But what I gain is learning to be able to help me make more money in the future through my real estate investments.

Brian Grimes
Yeah. And I think youve probably seen this like I have. Even if you feel like you're losing money on your first deal, it's almost an illusion because you hold that deal for five years and it appreciates one hundred fifty k and you're like, oh, it was a great deal. It was never a bad deal. But you have the time perception of this is a bad deal because in the short term it didn't produce what you wanted it to. But when we're just getting started, we truly don't know enough about real estate to be able to determine if a deal is actually bad. You have to be in this game for five to ten years to see how these deals appreciate and play out. Even your rents, a property that cash flows $300 a month. If you hold it for ten years, it'll go up to seven, $800 a month because the rents are inflating. But you're not thinking that way on your first deal. You're thinking too short term. But yeah, getting in the game is the way to win. The game rewards the players.

Mike Swenson
Yeah. And I remember our first property, it was actually our first townhouse that we bought and the value got cut in half because we bought it right before the crash and we held onto it. And I didn't have the luxury of choosing that property as a rental. We turned it into a rental. And I think we were maybe about $100 a month, maybe cash flow negative at that time. But then I looked at my mortgage statement every month. I looked at my taxes at the end of the year, and then eventually the value started to turn and then we did a refinance from a 30 year into a 20 year. And so more principal was coming off every month. And at the end of the day, it turned into a good story. However, at the time, you don't necessarily see that year, one month, one, but over time, and that's the beauty of being in real estate is, yeah, time's going to heal a lot of those pains that might, you might feel early on, and then it's just going to typically get better and better as you see more appreciation, more rent growth, all that stuff works in your favor.

Brian Grimes
Yeah. And the tax write offs you were getting, you know, while you held it, you're getting tax deductions, tax losses that also have a monetary value that we just don't know how to value as new investors. We just don't get it yet.

Mike Swenson
Well, thank you so much, Brian, for coming on and sharing for people that want to reach out to you and learn more about what you're doing. How can they do that?

Brian Grimes
You can find me on YouTube. Brian loves cash flow. It's easy to remember because I love cash flow. So Brian loves cash flow on YouTube. On Instagram Briangrimes 247 CFU for the 24/7 cash flow university and then we have a free training on www.workwithgrimes.com cash work with grimes.com cash flow. It's a free training. It'll show you how to acquire properties for pennies on a dollar all across the country. You don't want to miss out on that free offer.

Mike Swenson
Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. It's exciting to hear and best of luck in the future.