Amelia Misenheimer - Real Estate Investor & World Traveler
Amelia Misenheimer bought her first rental in 2010 with a down payment from a stock she bought years prior. After working in the oil & gas industry for a couple of years after college, she moved back to New Mexico and started a property management firm and bought that first property. She grew the firm to over 450 properties and worked with over 100 property owners. She bought a real estate brokerage and managed several Realtors. In 2021 she met her husband and moved with him overseas to England, which prompted her to sell her companies and transition to helping others do what she did through real estate investing. She still owns multiple properties, including in England, with a mix of single-family, small multi-family, and short-term rentals.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Learn how you can achieve financial freedom through real estate investment strategies.
- Discover the benefits of multigenerational real estate investing for long-term wealth.
- Uncover the potential of using VA loans for real estate investment success.
- Navigate the challenges and opportunities of investing in real estate overseas.
- Learn the essential steps for building a diversified rental property portfolio for retirement.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:00:00 - Planning Your Real Estate Investment Strategy
00:05:06 - Exploring Different Investment Options
00:06:06 - Challenges and Advantages of Non-Traditional Paths
00:10:02 - Personalizing Investment Strategies
00:12:00 - Scaling Real Estate Investments
00:18:29 - Considerations for Military Families and VA Loans
00:22:20 - Weathering Market Fluctuations in Real Estate
00:24:34 - The importance of experience in real estate
00:27:17 - Connecting with Amelia
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Read the full transcript:
Amelia Misenheimer
You have to have a plan going into it because you need to know which way to go. And then you can change your plan. Like, if all of a sudden you just figure out single families aren't right for you, great, sell them all. 10:31 it into a giant multifamily, like, whatever the case is. And I think that's what people get stuck to. They want to have it all figured out upfront, and they know just starts. And my tip to anybody, the first five properties are the hardest, because if you have one rental and one vacancy, it sucks.
Mike Swenson
Welcome to the Real Freedom show, where we inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities in real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Real Freedom, where we talk about building time and financial freedom and really just having opportunities for what you want your life to be through real estate. So I'm your host, Mike Swenson. If you want to get started investing in real estate, check out our website, freedom through real estate.com. we've got videos, articles, lots of stuff, education that you can watch to try to pick a path that might be right for you. And I really love interviewing different guests with different stories because for different people, it resonates, right? And so I like to expose you guys to a lot of different people and different journeys, and hopefully you'll see some similarities in a story that says, you know, hey, that's a path I want to pursue, or that's a guest that I want to reach out to and learn more about what they do. And so today we've got an awesome guest. We've got Amelia Meisenheimer here, a little bit about her background. So one topic we'll talk about is kind of multigenerational real estate experience. Having parents or grandparents that have experience and that being able to learn and grow from them. You got started yourself with your first rental back in 2010, moved around quite a bit. A lot of life experience, ran a property management company. Also invested, having a husband in the military, VA loan options. So, so many different topics that we can discuss. So, Emil, were so excited to have you on the show.
Amelia Misenheimer
Mike, I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. And I'm looking forward to this conversation because like you said, you know, there's so many different ways to invest in real estate. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that because sometimes it can be really noisy in this space of everybody saying you need to do it this way or this is the best way. And it just has to be a way that works for you.
Mike Swenson
So give us a little bit about your background and we'll kind of expand and grow from there.
Amelia Misenheimer
All right. Well, as you mentioned, I've got a lot. There's been a lot going on in my limited years. No. So I am a third generation real estate investor. My grandparents actually started investing in land. So they. He was a dry land farmer in New Mexico. And you got to be quite the gambler to dry land farm in New Mexico. We're not known for rain. So that was, you know, kind of where it got started. And then through business my parents got and started investing. And then obviously at this point I just kind of grew up with it. So that's how I kind of got started in it. My brother bought his first house in college, rented it, rented his rooms out to his roommates and he paid that house off a couple years ago. And I was a little mad that Adam for getting that done. And because I, when I was in college, I did not want to commit to buying a house in college because like I'm not going to be here. I'm never coming back. And so I didn't. And I'm still mad about it because he paid his off and got that asset paid. And I'm a little jealous. So, you know, so I've really grown up in real estate. I can tell you all sorts of stories. Like you mentioned, I had a real estate brokerage at a property management firm. We managed over 450 properties. And you know, being a property manager, I understand why people that work with the public are a little grumpy and you get a lot of stories, you hear a lot of good things, a lot of bad things. But one of the things that I really saw through that was how many people got forced into being landlords, you know, especially with a VA loan. VA loan is a huge asset, but you got to know what you're doing because it can bite you if you're not prepared for it. And you know, people got forced into, they couldn't sell their house for what they owed on it, things like that. And so, you know, it was kind of interesting to see. So when my husband and I got married, he where we're located, we have a military base. So that's how we met. And we ended up moving overseas. You know, when we were dating, he warned me that we're going to move to England. And I was like, well, we'll see where this really goes. Jokes on Me, we moved to England, got married, and I attempted to continue running the property management company as well as the real estate company from overseas. And I really realized I was doing a disservice to both my existence and clients as well as to my new life, because I was like working from 3pm till midnight, and it just. My clients couldn't get a hold of me because of the time zones. And I obviously wasn't there to deal with problems. So I ended up selling both of the companies. I did use creative financing for that. So it's still nice that I'm, you know, getting a monthly check for those as well to kind of continue on and bring that forward in my life. But then we recently moved back to the States and so really kind of getting reintegrated into this, back into the U.S. that's. That's a whole thing too, but moving into this online consulting space, because I think my favorite part about property management was working with the investors. So I really want to go into, you know, how can I help people invest in real estate and how can I really help them, you know, grow a portfolio that works for them? And I think that's part of the conversation of what do you want to do and what. Because not everybody wants to go fix toilets at midnight. And granite. That's not an emergency. Nobody needs to fix a toilet at midnight. But that's the horror stories you hear about.
Mike Swenson
So thinking about why investing in real estate, you know, obviously you were raised kind of in the real estate space. You're entrepreneurial. It's, it's, you know, for some people, it's, hey, get a good job, work that W2, you know, invest in your 401k. Sounds like you kind of had the opposite path. So talk about some of those conversations about why going into the real estate space versus going with kind of the, quote unquote, more traditional path of, you know, that stability or, you know, the W2 type job.
Amelia Misenheimer
You know, there are. Sometimes I get really jealous of a W2, especially when I'm trying to file for a bank loan or new loan or something like that. I'm like, man, I wish I had that W2. When my husband and I were applying, we actually bought our house over in England, and we are applying for that loan. And they're like, well, Amelia can be on it, but all we're going to do is count her debts and none of her income. I was like, well, that's a little asinine. So I just won't be on that loan, you know, so it is sometimes a little difficult to be in that non traditional space. And I think that challenge needs to be acknowledged too because you do play by a different set of rules. And if you know the game, those rules can be really advantageous. You know, you get all your income first, the government's not taxing you first. You gotta, you know, kind of play the games and tell the government how much you made. And the tax code's out there for everybody. It's the same tax code. You love it, you hate it, it is what it is. But you know, it's really learning how to embrace your situation and play the game. And real estate is just such a tool to not only build that wealth, but my parents were self employed and there's so many self employed people out there. But guess, guess who's not planning your income, your retirement. There's nobody planning your retirement. So what are you doing about your retirement? Because you know, as rich dad, poor dad, you know, Robert Kiyosaki, like you're on the, you're on the rat, you're in the rat race, you're on the hamster wheel. So how do you get off? And yes, you can make a lot of money selling and it could be selling cars, selling vacuums, selling whatever, you know, services, plumbing, like whatever. You can make a lot of money, but at some point you want to stop and what does that look like to stop? And how do you build that retirement? And real estate is just such a great asset to really do that because it lasts for generations. I mean realist living in England, you know, I'm seeing these properties that are a thousand year old and guess what, they're still occupied. People are still living there. So clearly, you know, it's an asset class that does not go anywhere and is going to be needed forever. It's shelter. We all, we all need shelter.
Mike Swenson
I think about investors sometimes talking to me like, you know, hey, I want you know, 1985 or newer properties or whatever. I think about, you know, friends of mine on the east coast that have homes that are 200, 300 years old. And then yeah, you've got, in England, they're much older than that. And so sometimes investors are a little picky. And it also shows that when built well, homes can last a long time.
Amelia Misenheimer
You know, there's a lot to be said about how they're built and how they last because there are a few things that I would agree with that newer than 1984, 5. And then there's a huge opportunity and you know, doing things other People don't want to do. And that's where a lot of money can be made as well.
Mike Swenson
So for you, I think sometimes how people might get stuck in investing in real estate or trying to plan for their retirement or their future by investing in real estate is there's so many different options, right? I can do a thousand different things. I can do property management. I can, you know, whatever it might look like. How do you look at structuring what your retirement or kind of maybe your legacy that you want to live, how that might look when it's kind of unlimited options?
Amelia Misenheimer
You know, one of the things is that it's a great question, Mike. Thank you. So it is. It's important to look at how I want to live my life, right? Like, do I want to check on toilets and do all of that? Do I want to have partners? Because, you know, there's always that opportunity to join venture and, you know, do syndications or different things. So how, what is your comfort level with that? I was raised very traditionally, for better or worse, you know, I don't have any partners. I own all my properties 100%. That means I haven't grown as much as other people. You know, I see people say I have 100 doors in three years or this or that, and I'm like, first of all, how, right? Like, you got to be able to make sure you manage it because nobody's going to watch your money like you do. And I don't care what anybody says, I don't care who you invest with. They're not going to watch your money like you do. There are people who do better at it. But at the end of the day, it's your money, it's your future, your assets. You got to protect it. So what is your comfort level with that and what does that look like? And then, you know, some people, like invest out of state and yeah, if you live in California or Washington or Oregon, where it's very, you know, tenant friendly and very expensive, maybe investing out of state is the best option for you. But again, nobody's going to watch your money like you do. So how do you make sure your investments are being protected? Because there are more stories than anybody wants to hear about people getting scammed, contractors stealing their money, you know, the house wasn't there, things like that, that it's just sad that people have to go through that experience. So whenever you get started being really clear with what your level of involvement wants to be, what your goals are, you know, are you investing in appreciation markets? Are you Investing for cash flow. Like, are you trying to replace your 9 to 5 income, or is this something that, you know, in 15, 20 years you'll be happy to have these paid off assets and you don't really need that income until then because you've got your W2. You know that all of those pieces change how and what you invest in. And then, you know, once you kind of identify those pieces in your comfort level, then start looking for deals. And there are always deals out there. And there's no definition of a good deal or a bad deal because again, it depends on what your goals are. I have investors who will buy properties that lose money because they need the tax write off. That's great for them. That's not it for me. I did buy a property that had negative cash flow, but I put zero money down on it. So I was like, well, you know what? For zero money down, I can afford to lose a little bit every month on my cash flow. So every deal has to work for you and your strategy. And I think that's the hardest part. People want a playbook. And yes, there's great playbooks out there. I know, Mike, you help clients with that. Like, there are so many different ways to do it and there's so many playbooks to follow, but whatever book you follow just has to work for you. And that's the most important message at the end of the day.
Mike Swenson
Can you talk a little bit about kind of your journey as you scaled from your first property up and what that looked like?
Amelia Misenheimer
Yeah, so my goal is always one property a year. Nothing fancy, nothing exciting. And, you know, the more I worked in property management, it was kind of interesting. You think you'd be in the industry and you get more opportunities and more excited about it, but honestly, the fewest properties I bought were demi years of working in property management because I was so sick of properties, you know, dealing with them every day, day in, day out. So a lot of people who like, I want to become a realtor so I can buy properties like you're honestly don't. If you were thinking about becoming a realtor so you can buy investment properties, don't. There's so many better ways to go about it, partly because with licensure comes responsibilities, and that's a whole nother can of worms. But really to, you know, to just keep your eye open and have the conversation with people that you're looking to buy. I bought several properties from clients who either, you know, were didn't want their property anymore, didn't want to Deal with selling it, you know, and that's having those conversations and having people know you're open to those conversations. I have picked up deals. People, you know, obviously like being in the office, they call the office, they their realtor upset them, their previous realtor. So you know, when people are burned is a good time to buy a property, which is a shame, you know. And that's what they say, you know, in real estate, the best births, divorces and deaths are three really good opportunities for real estate because it creates a change of household typically. So you know, there's always deals out there and a lot of it's just being open to the advantages when they present themselves and then knowing what you're looking for because you can't jump on it if you're not like, I want a three bedroom that's going to bring this much rent and rent for this and be near the university. Like if you don't have some sort of specifications, you're just throwing darts at the wall of what's going to come your way.
Mike Swenson
I think that's a challenge for some people because deals come in so many different ways. It's kind of hard to know like when people just say like, oh, you got a network? Well, what does that look like? You know, how do I network? Because you might find a deal from, like you said, maybe it was an owner of one of the properties you managed. Maybe, yeah, you run across a different deal deal where there is a, you know, birth, death, divorce, whatever that looks like.
Amelia Misenheimer
I had a friend buy a property. Their co workers were getting divorced so they bought their house for cheap because they needed to sell it to settle the divorce. Like they're out there.
Mike Swenson
So then you, you mentioned a little bit about tenant friendly versus owner friendly. I know that you had invested in New Mexico in the past. You'd kind of reference, you know, kind of California, Washington, that sort of thing. Talk a little bit about the strategy there, what state you invest in or what area you invest in and just kind of some of the things to think about, not what's the best, what's the worst, but just considerations.
Amelia Misenheimer
So for me, what's important to me is I have to be hands on and I'm comfortable with hands on. I want to go look at it. So most of my investments are back in New Mexico where I was living, where I had a network. I knew what plumber to call, I knew the electrician, they answer their phone when I call. You know, things like that. For me that was important. So most of mine are back In New Mexico, you know, in England, obviously, that's a whole different ballgame. But we were like, hey, this is an opportunity. We can do it. It was not easy. I wanted to quit. My husband wanted to qu. Quit, but he had the determination, I had the knowledge, so we got it done. You know, we're actually getting ready to close on our second one here in the next year in England as well. So, you know, you talk about investing overseas, you add in a currency factor, which never really kind of crossed my mind. I call it like 3D investing, because not only are you dealing with your traditional, you know, income, expenses, mortgage, all of that, but you add in a currency conversion to your asset, and you're like, whoa, this is a whole different ballgame. So that's been a really fun learning endeavor. And now that we're in Indiana, I'm really looking at getting my hands on some properties here. There's a great market here. We've got a university. There's plenty of industry, you know, so I'm really excited about getting some of that built here. But for me, that's what's important. I want to hands on. I want to drive by, I want to go check it. I want to know if my plumber showed up. I want those things.
Mike Swenson
I think the local piece is important. We live in Minnesota. I was a realtor here. I worked with investor clients here. And so I know the areas. I kind of know what I like, what I don't like. You know, there's a lot of people out there like, hey, go invest in, you know, Georgia or North Carolina. It's like, well, I don't. I don't know the cities, I don't know the populations, I don't know the industries. So there's a lot of challenges there. And so I think, yeah, you know, kind of start with what you're comfortable with, start with what you know, and you can get more sophisticated or you can diversify outside of that, down the road.
Amelia Misenheimer
And I think it's important to recognize you can always change your plan. Right? Like, you have to have a plan going into it, because you need to know which way to go, and then you can change your plan. Like, if all of a sudden you just figure out single families aren't right for you, great, sell them all. 1031, and into a giant multifamily, like, whatever the case is. And I think that's what people get stuck to. They want to have it all figured out upfront. And I know just starts. And my tip to anybody, the first five Properties are the hardest because if you have one rental and one vacancy, it sucks. And that's all there is to it. Like there's no cushioning that it sucks. But when you have the five, typically you'd have four cash flowing. That's going to float your one. And that always makes it a little less painless. A little. A little less painless.
Mike Swenson
Therein lies, you know, kind of the thought of, yeah, are you owning something yourself or are you working with others for better or worse? You know. Yeah. When you work with others, there's good situations that come up and there's bad situations that come up. Some people prefer to work alone. And so yeah, there's, there's a lot of stuff out there.
Amelia Misenheimer
Yeah. And it's figuring out what works for you and your tolerance level. And that's. And that's the hardest part and the easiest part to it because you get to set the rules, but you got to be confident in your rules that you set.
Mike Swenson
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Mike Swenson
Talk a little bit about the VA loan. Being in a military family, there's some opportunities there. You had mentioned you know how maybe it can come back and bite you in the butt for people out there that are in the military and we've had a few guests on that have become millionaires by investing in real estate by utilizing their VA loan. What are some things that people you know, maybe would, would need to know as they potentially have a VA loan and how they could utilize that.
Amelia Misenheimer
You hit on a soft hot topic for me, Mike. I. So the VA loan, the big thing about it is allows you to buy a house zero down. But what nobody talks about is all of your closing costs. So the VA charges you a VA funding fee that can be anywhere from like one and a half to three and a half percent. It's like 3.3%. And yes, they charge you all these fees, but don't worry, they let you finance it into your loan. And that's the piece that people, you know, really get stung by is you buy a house for say $200,000 and you've got $15,000 of closing costs. And these are just, you know, arbitrary numbers. But so now you've got a loan and a mortgage on a house that's worth 200,000 because that's the market rate that you just bought it for. But your loan is now at 215,000. So what happens? Because military move, they don't like to stay.
Mike Swenson
They don't want to stay in the.
Amelia Misenheimer
Same spot where they keep. So, so what happens? Either you got to be in a market that's appreciating fast enough that the appreciation of the property goes up to cover those costs that you financed in, or you got to hang on to the property. And hanging on to property is honestly where you will always make your money. In real estate. You can make quick money in real estate. You can do a fix and flip. You can do, you know, things, but where you really, truly build that generational wealth, that legacy, you know, all of those things that real estate freedom is by hanging on to real estate. And if you plan on hanging onto that house, great user, va, finance it in, sit on it, no problem. But it's when you're needing to force to have to sell within that time period when you have no equity. So that's my beef with VA loans. But they are, they are a great tool, but you got to be prepared for that financing and of costs.
Mike Swenson
Well, kind of a similar example, not necessarily the same story. When we bought our first property, you know, we were only planning on living in it for two or three years and we bought this property in 2006. And I remember, you know, talking with my lender and they're like, hey, you know, we can get you a better rate on a five year variable rate. You know, are you planning on being there for five years? Nope, not, you know, gonna sell, gonna, you know, downsize from our townhouse. So he bought the house and then the market tanked and, you know, the value of it was worth half of what we bought it for. So kind of in that underwater situation, it's like, shoot, I never would have imagined because everybody's like, oh, invest in real estate. And then we're underwater by, you know, probably 70, $80,000. And watched all of my neighbors foreclose short sale. And I was like, okay, either we do the same or we stick it out. And that's how we became landlords because we, we turned it into a rental and we kind of ask questions, okay, what are we going to do? Either we stay, we figure out how to turn it into a rental. But yeah, that just goes to show too that yes, just because people make money in real estate or real estate is a great investment over the long term. Yeah. If you have a short time horizon, you got to be really careful about what. Because yeah, you could get stuck with, hey, we can wrap these costs into this loan. Are you okay with that? Yeah, that's great. I don't have to pay out of pocket. And then yeah, in two years when you got to sell, you're stuck.
Amelia Misenheimer
And that's so true of any real estate. And I really kind of started getting into real estate in like 08, which obviously was the middle of the crash and everything. And that was what was the biggest eye opener as this 22 year old kind of fresh out of college and the world's great was, you know, everybody who got really screwed by the crash and sucked in all that were people who were forced to sell. So when you go in and you buy, if you can afford that mortgage, and especially in today's industry, there's no more variable rate loans. Right. Like commercial loans will still have them. Fun fact. England does not have any locked rates. You can do a two, five and maybe a ten year lock, but everything is variable rate. Which blew my mind. But you know, as long as you go into the deal and can afford your mortgage, then you know, you can wait it out, whatever the case is, because the market will come back, the market will go higher. Like there it is, real estate, they are not making any more land. And that is, you know, kind of the mentality that I've taken to it too. I'm like, if I have to go collect eggs and goats and honey, you know, for my rent, if that end of the world comes, like, like people still need shelter and I'll go collect my quarterly goat, I don't know. But you know, it really is such an asset, it's not going anywhere. We all need houses. So it's just the timing of the market and your situation of where it hits in that market.
Mike Swenson
Now you've certainly been exposed to a lot, have a lot of different experience moving overseas. You know, you had mentioned about kind of now focusing on virtually helping people invest in real estate. So that's kind of what you, you look to do. Now, who are the types of people that you like to work with as you kind of them with real estate investing?
Amelia Misenheimer
So I typically say successful six and seven figure individuals. So as I have kind of critiqued where I've gone, I have plenty of content out there like you do, you know, to help the beginner get started, kind of do it yourself. But what I'm really learning is a lot of people who want to get started in real estate don't have the time because it takes time to learn the market, it takes time to know the industry. It takes time. You know, like you said, all of those pieces that go into investing take time. So I've, you know, kind of created a way to leverage my experience because I can go in there a lot faster and say, okay, is this going to work or no? Or you want to invest in California, the house is going to cost you a million. You're going to get $2,000 a month in rent. Are you okay with that? And I'm sure everybody in California would love to get $2,000 a month in rent. But you know, like just some of these things as you become more and more experienced and there's no fast path, it takes time. You know, you can see these deals faster, you can see what's going to work, you can see what doesn't work. But also one of the strengths that comes with having the conversations, you know, and we talked kind of about that generational, like watching my family deal with the assets from my grandparents to the inheritance of my parents, what that looked like, how they structured it, how they use trust, the different types of trusts that are available, you know, that was a big deal. Then you get into step up in basis is a big deal. Then you get into, you know, how different siblings want to handle their properties was a, you know, and just, just, you know, being able to have a front row seat to this was just amazing. But not only that, of course, you know, when my grandfather passed, who shows up to the party? The IRS with a massive audit, you know, on top of everything else. So, you know, watching that happen, because the IRS does audit estates. That is a target for them. That is something they come in. And how many people have talked about that, right, who, who talks about having your estate audited? Not only are you grieving the death, you now you have an IRS audit, you're trying to figure everything out. Like, like nobody's having those conversations. So, you know, that's where I really try to bring that experience to My clients is saying, all right, let's have these conversations upfront. Let's create this plan. And then they can either go implement the plan on their own that we've created, or I can help, you know, walk them through implementing that plan. Making offers, drafting deals, negotiations, you know, all of the pieces that go to investing in real estate.
Mike Swenson
You mentioned the timepiece. That's huge.
Amelia Misenheimer
Yeah.
Mike Swenson
For people that are high income earners, you know, maybe in another industry trying to get into real estate, whatever, it might look like they just don't have the time. And it's kind of like, give me the stuff that I need to know as quick as possible so that I don't have to go learn it myself. And I know a lot of people kind of take this mindset of, well, you can find anything on YouTube, right? I can just YouTube it. Well, you can't necessarily YouTube a specific strategy or specific information based on your situation. And so that's where having people that have gone before you that have, you know, a little bit of a better overall understanding can really help. And I'm sure you do an amazing job of that with your clients.
Amelia Misenheimer
Yeah. Because, you know, YouTube doesn't ask you the questions like, how's this Airbnb Arbitra? Arbitrary arbitrage is. Kills me. Like, Airbnb is not easy. I had my first Airbnb and it was actually my home that when my husband and I got married, I'm like, what do I do with all of my stuff? We're moving overseas. So I turned it into an Airbnb and it's done. Fantastic. But, you know, it's. There's so many pieces to that that, you know, everybody makes it seem so easy and so glamorous. And all you got to do is this. And start with no money. I'm like, there's nothing in the world. If it's that easy, everybody'd be doing it and everybody be a lot richer. And they're not. So clearly there's more to it than the glamour that everybody likes to talk about.
Mike Swenson
So for people that want to reach out to you and learn more about kind of what you're doing and connect with you, how can they do.
Amelia Misenheimer
So I am on Instagram. It's just Amelia G. Meisenheimer super short and easy. I know also on LinkedIn for Amelia Meisenheimer, Facebook, all of those. And then my email is just [email protected]. so I'm pretty well out there. If. And it's M I S e N H e I M E R. They dropped an I whenever they moved over from Germany. But I'm out there, so I'm easy to reach, easy to, you know, have a conversation with and happy to help. Or, you know, if you've got questions, I'm happy to answer questions as well. So I think this, this journey is a lot more fun when you have friends than trying to do it alone. And there is plenty of the pie for all of us.
Mike Swenson
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. If you want to reach out to Amelia, please do so. You got a ton of experience and a lot of information and a wealth of knowledge to be able to share with people.
Amelia Misenheimer
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure having this conversation.
